reikimaster

This isn't really router related as I haven't used my router yet in this project. You see, I just had to vent a bit about how projects escalate in scope.

One day in late summer my upstairs bathroom vent fan up and quit. It was old. We've been in the house 13 years and it was there when we got there. A heat/light/vent combination unit. I told my wife, "I'll just replace it".

Famous last words...

Well I removed the old ROUND combo unit and really couldn't find another round one to just pop in that I liked. So I bought a rectangle shaped one. OK... gotta open the ceiling a bit. Lo and behold I find out the previous installation DIDN'T VENT TO OUTSIDE! Who the heck installs a vent fan that just blows the air between the roof rafters? (This is in a bathroom with a cathedral ceiling). ACK! MOLD!

So now I had to pull down all ceiling in that rafter bay to get the extent of the mold, spray it down, basically remove the mold, and only THEN could I install the new unit. This time WITH venting to the outside. I used a soffit vent made for the application. Worked out kinda nice. It was during this time I found out why my wall seemed "thick". There is an application of what LOOKS like drywall, but in strips only about a foot wide. Nailed to the studs horizontally with no gaps between. Then scratch coat and lime coat plaster. Total thickness is 3/4" and .... wow. It doesn't come down as easy as drywall demolition.....

I think I'll break this saga into pieces. Next message is next piece...

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reikimaster

Ok so now the wife says, "Can we replace the tub?". The tub is light blue. It is the original to the house built in 1958. She asked this because teh ceramic tile in the tub alcove was coming down and revealed a deterioration of the wall behind it. Tiles applied to the plaster walls by previous owner. So if I was going to rip the walls down why not replace the tub while I'm at it? OK... escalation...

The tub is porcelain on cast iron. It's on a second floor. It's gotta go 400 pounds pretty easy. Time to get the 10 pound sledge hammer. Me and burly 20 year old son and about 30 minutes and we've got pieces of tub we can carry down the stairs and take out to the curb. In the process of hammering out the tub I loosened some plaster on the family room ceiling down below. SWIRLED family room ceiling. I can fix it. I know how. Add it to the list of "post bathroom completion" projects. ....escalation ....

Now that those walls are out and the tub, wife says, "As long as we're this far we may as well change the vanity. It's beat." I have to admit... she's right. So ... maple vanity and solid surface top AND a cabinet for over the toilet. Then it's, "as long as we have all that stuff out, can we replace the floor?" The floor is about 8 years old. In good shape, but it's WHITE and ... well it's a nightmare to keep it clean. A laminate floor I put down so I know it won't be terrible to take out. So we pick out a new laminate floor. And while we're out shopping we get a new mirror (with built-in lighting), a new general lighting fixture, and "oh... can I have a light in the tub area?". So I get an IC rated fixture that's rated for wet areas (not DAMP... WET) to install in the ceiling...

next message is part 3...

reikimaster

So now my "I'll replace the vent fan" project has the entire upstairs bathroom STRIPPED TO THE STUDS. Including the ceiling. The mold issue was confined to that one rafter bay and it's been dealt with.

While at it I found previous owner had pulled a new circuit up from the basement (not an easy task) and installed the heat/light/vent on it's own circuit. They also installed a NON-GFCI plug next to the sink by pulling power from the general lighting fixture ABOVE the sink. So that receptacle was only on if the light was on. Wife says, "can I have plugs that are on all the time?". So I get 2 GFCI plugs. One for each end of the vanity counter. "The counter's not that long", she says. "Why would you install one at each end?". So I tell her, "If I'm doing this, I do NOT want to even THINK that someone has a cord running across the sink to plug something in." She tells me that makes perfect sense. Of course it does.

So this bathroom is on 2 circuits. The original one and a new one. The original one had the bathroom light and original vent fan on the same circuit as the plugs in the master bedroom and one front bedroom. I know they've added plugs and closet lights in those rooms. I want to minimize what's on that circuit in the bathroom. So I'm only going to tie the new general lighting fixture and the tub area pot light fixture into that circuit. The other circuit that only had the heat/light/vent on it, will get the dual GFCI outlets and the connection to the lighted mirror.

We have always had 2 switches next to the bathroom door as you walk in. One turns on the light and the other... does nothing. Well I found out the other was the original vent fan switch. The wire was abandoned in the ceiling with wire nuts on it. STILL LIVE. Now I'm glad I took that ceiling down completely.

So I still have to pick some of the stubborn areas clean of plastered work, pull all the nails, remove the toilet and laminate floor, and get ready to start putting it all back together. I've hired a pumber to set the new tub because we're going from a 30" to a 32" so everything has to move over an inch. And because I'm 53 and don't have the tools and he'll probably get it done in less than a day and I would struggle with it for much longer than that.

Oh... and the wife says to me, "with that ceiling height...instead of drywall... wouldn't it look nice with a maple plank ceiling?" ... so I'll be doing that as well.

So... BEWARE of ESCALATION!

I'm almost AFRAID to start building a workbench. I might end up with another GARAGE!

Gilbear

Hmmmm ... do I sense a tad bit of frustration here?! I assume most of us would have to empathise - I could go into the one from 2 years ago where simply replacing a window in the family room turned into actually taking down most of the outside wall framing and the ensuing reframing/insulating/siding/electric/drywall/etc, etc.
I'm sure it'll look great when you're done. Besides, it's this kind of stuff that gives our wives a reason to keep us around ... well, at least untill it's done!
Good luck and let us know how it's going along! Beers all around when you finaly hang the toilet roll holder!

reikimaster

Not sure it's a frustration issue although there's certainly frustration in finding things like abandoned wires in the ceiling. Kinda makes you wonder what ELSE they might have done in other parts of the house.

I really LIKE the project. (kinda sick, huh?). Oh There are aspects of it that don't thrill me. The demo is harder than expected due to the wall construction. The tub removal didn't go as easily as the others I've done. Things like that. But overall I'm HAPPY when I'm working on these kinds of things. I think what's getting to me is that after a rather severe accident in 2001 (I died... so I guess you can classify that as "severe") I find I'm not physically able to do things I did when I was in my 20s. heheheh... yeah I know... welcome to the club...

From a vanity standpoint (my own vanity... not the bathroom vanity) it's a harsh reality to deal with. And THAT fact... that I'm having to deal with it at all.. is somewhat of ANOTHER reality check.

Anyways... I think I'm going to take pictures of it gutted (as a reminder to myself not to DO this again... heheh) and then pictures of it when it's done. It WILL be worth it... heck I'm probably saving somewhere in the neighborhood of $7,000 by doing all this stuff myself. Might be time to use some of that savings to buy that hot tub we've talked about the last few years.

Then... it'll need a gazebo......

Gilbear

uh, careful about mentioning the hot tub thing - folks'l get the wrong idea about us! haha
Yeah, I enjoy it too, even when swearing up a blue streak - kind of a masochistic thing I suppose ... looking forward to the pictures, if you decide to post 'em.

reikimaster

The saga continues...

On top of finding teh abandoned wire in the ceiling (live...with wire nuts) I also found a fixture with no box in the wall... just wires sticking out and light fixture just screwed to the wall. Some framing that must have been done by Heckle and Jeckle. How about walling in the chimny with just a vertical stud nailed to the floor (no plate) AFTER the ceiling was rock-lathed so pulling down the rock lathe means there's a 3/8" gap at the ceiling above the stud. AND I think the subflooring around the closet flange is kinda spongy on one side.

I told my wife last night that I think I'm at the limit of my SURPRISE! quota.

Hamlin

Don't ya just love working on those old homes? I know all too well about what you're going through. I think many of us agree with ya about job isn't bad, it's the surprises.

Gilbear

Having just started a bathroom remodel myself, when I read your post the nightmares started and now can't get myself to continue! When my wife gets on me about it, I'm just gonna give her your e-mail address!

reikimaster

Thanks a bunch! hehe. I will tell ya one thing though. Last night after dinner I decided to drop back 5 yards and ponder. We could call it a "Planning and Strategy Session Based on Recently Discovered Deviations From Expected Conditions" or we could just refer to it as "Butt Scratching" which seems so much more esoterically accurate. I just installed a couple pieces of blocking for a new mirror and light fixture that's going in and while doing so I looked at that subfloor issue. Now you should know that at 2am (until almost 3:30am) the night before... the subfloor was my nightmare for the night. While putting the blocking in after dinner it turned (miraculously) into a much more manageable situation. Using circular saw and sawzall, cut out the affected piece to the next floor joist. Be prepared to sister in to the floor joists to support the new piece (which will go around the existing flange as 2 pieces, seamed at the flange centerline). Remove the 2 offending Heckle and Jeckle studs, letting the newly installed and wired electric boxes hang (no power to them yet). Put in the floor patch since I already HAVE the plywood because I PLANNED on replacing some floor. Install a plate. Buy and install 2 more 2x4 studs. Reattach the electrical boxes. And it's done. What's that... maybe a couple hours of fiddling around including running to buy a couple more 2x4s?

MUCH better than at 2am the previous night. I'm selling this house in about 5 years. I need a house with no stairs. (This one's a tri-level), but I refuse to do shoddy work. My wife says, "Who is going to know?".

The answer is obvious. I will. Might as well just DECIDE to take whatever time I need to get it right.

And that INCLUDES checking the flashing on the 2 year old roof installation (contrated out) because I THINK the water I saw was from wind-driven rain getting in.

Ain't this fun?