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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Very interesting. Italian company supplying europe, bookmarked,
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 05:04 AM
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Now that makes sense, the insurance companies have their finger in the pie.
Only partly, Herb. The regulations which we have are there to reduce serious injuries in industry. They do work as evidenced by a year on year reduction in industrial woodworking accidents (per '000 workers) across Europe over many years. Because I am a foreman/site manager type this is something I need to be aware of.

Oh, and BTW, dado heads on saws AREN'T banned in the UK. Their use without adequate guarding and braking most certainly IS - at least in commercial environments, I have to ask why it is that some hobbyists without any formal training consider themselves at less risk than trained and qualified woodworkers when using such equipment. To me that is the biggest mystery

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 05:53 AM
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Eric I think it stems from Americans don't like being told what to do.

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 12:56 PM
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Bill is correct to some extent but some of us also believe that it is far better to teach someone how to avoid getting hurt than it is to try and make the workplace idiot proof. From my experience there is no such thing as idiot proof because eventually there will be an idiot to come along and prove that wrong. Only occasionally is equipment failure the problem and often if it is it's from lack of proper maintenance and inspections. What most accidents can be traced back to is unsafe work procedure.

Two years ago I was working on a Conoco Phillips plant site, the largest Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage heavy oil project in the world. While I was there they surpassed the 1.000.000 man hour mark without a single lost time injury, a world record. If you were seen doing something unsafe and they knew you knew better you were let go immediately. If there was anything that you had to do that you were unsure of you were expected to ask before you did it. There were 5000 workers on site so it was a busy place.Nothing got done without a meeting of all concerned to go over the specifics of what was going to happen. That's how you avoid accidents is through training and good planning.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 04:23 PM
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Eric I think it stems from Americans don't like being told what to do.
It isn't just Americans! I find one of the greatest annoyances with health and safety is the way in which some managers and officials (especially health and safety officers) hide behind it to avoid having to do their jobs properly. An example of sheer laziness and stupidity from one of our customers; they have banned the use of utility (Stanley) knives unless they are the self-retracting type. This is because one of their employees was attempting to cut a plastic drain pipe with a utility knife, slipped and badly gashed his hand, requiring more than 10 stitches. So the health and safety officers banned the fixed blade utility knife - instead of sending the guy (and his manager) for an hour's training with one of our site carpenters. The guy who injured himself is a moron because he's been around long enough to have seen other trades cutting these pipes by sawing them with a fine tooth saw. His manager is also a moron because he didn't ensure that safe working practices were being followed and that the operative had the right equipment as well as being competent to undertake the task. The rest of us are "victims" because we are now suffering from the problems of having to do some jobs with hopelessly inadequate tools (ever try cutting-out a felted roof with a self-retracting blade? ). You can't make the workplace idiot-proof but you can try to ensure that your idiots become better informed (and thus less likely to have the accident in the first place)

In the environment I work in we have to have pre-prepared risk assessments and method statements for just about everything. It sounds like a burden, but once you've done a few it becomes relatively easy to "recycle" major parts - because the same basic safety ethos applies to almost everything you undertake at almost every client site you visit. Safety and safe working practice is trainable but periodic refreshers help keep the safety issues well to the fore in how our guys undertake their work

And before anyone says it, sorry for going so far OT
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Last edited by Job and Knock; 12-22-2016 at 04:29 PM.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 06:25 PM
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And before anyone says it, sorry for going so far OT
Nothing to apologize for here Eric... safety cannot be talked about enough in my opinion. EVERYONE has something to add to the topic based on their life experience.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Job and Knock View Post
An example of sheer laziness and stupidity from one of our customers; they have banned the use of utility (Stanley) knives unless they are the self-retracting type. This is because one of their employees was attempting to cut a plastic drain pipe with a utility knife, slipped and badly gashed his hand, requiring more than 10 stitches.
Seriously??!! A utility knife? He should have cut his head... wouldn't have hurt a thing that way.
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 07:22 AM
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I'm surprised to hear that 1,000,000 man hours without a lost-time accident was a world record Chuck. I still have a pen that I received over 20 years ago when working for a chemical company, commemorating 750,000 hours without a lost-time accident. Now we never got to a 1,000,000 hours pen But that site did not have particularly impressive safety practices and engineering, and I would hope others would be a lot safer.
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