Makita Rail System Router Compatibility - Router Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Marcel M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Marcel
Posts: 626
 
Makita Rail System Router Compatibility

I own a Makita 3612BR plunge router and would like to know if it is compatible with the Makita SP6000 K1 rail system. I know that the rail system has a router adapter but am unsure if the holder would fit my old plunge router.

The following is a video of the rail system and at 7:39 into the video they show the router adapter.

Makita SP6000K1 Plunge Saw & 1.4m Rail - YouTube
Marcel M is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 09:28 AM
Honored Member
 
harrysin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Australia
First Name: Harry
Posts: 11,674
     
Send a message via Skype™ to harrysin
In spite of being one of Makita's biggest fans I've never come across the rail system. I would be very surprised if the router adaptor didn't fit the 3612 which has been sold worlwide in huge numbers as has the 3600BR which takes the same edge guide with 12mm rods. By the way, that saw really is something, I'll bet that Porter Cable will, at this very moment be attempting to copy it without infringing patents! What a pity they haven't produced a router that compares with the variable speed version of the 3612! I'm now signing off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harry



Nothing but heaven itself is better than a friend who is really a friend. - Plautus






harrysin is online now  
post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Marcel M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Marcel
Posts: 626
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrysin View Post
In spite of being one of Makita's biggest fans I've never come across the rail system. I would be very surprised if the router adaptor didn't fit the 3612 which has been sold worlwide in huge numbers as has the 3600BR which takes the same edge guide with 12mm rods. By the way, that saw really is something, I'll bet that Porter Cable will, at this very moment be attempting to copy it without infringing patents! What a pity they haven't produced a router that compares with the variable speed version of the 3612! I'm now signing off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps with so many 3612's out there someone on this site has. I like the plunge saw but I would like them to make one with a deeper plunge capacity like the Festool TS 75 plunge cut saw. Makita plays the copycat role but perhaps they will get an engineering department rather than a reverse engineering department and then they can begin to innovate.

Last edited by Marcel M; 08-23-2012 at 02:42 AM.
Marcel M is offline  
post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 09:02 AM
Honored Member
 
harrysin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Australia
First Name: Harry
Posts: 11,674
     
Send a message via Skype™ to harrysin
I would love to know the basis on which your remarks are based Marcel.

Harry



Nothing but heaven itself is better than a friend who is really a friend. - Plautus






harrysin is online now  
post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Marcel M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Marcel
Posts: 626
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrysin View Post
I would love to know the basis on which your remarks are based Marcel.
Festool invented the plunge saw and Makita copied it. Festool invented the rail system and Makita copied it. Festool invented their systainer system and lo and behold the Makita plunge saw comes in a systainer type case with Festool type clamps a Festool type rail, protractor, stops, bars to join rails together. The Makita rail has been made compatible to the Festool rail in order to steal customers from Festool. Reverse engineering and blatant copycat practices. Probably the high cost of the Festool products has to do with Research & Development which is quite costly. R&D groups cost heavily because it takes very talented, dedicated and innovative individuals to invent and bring new products to market and it also takes a forward thinking company culture to foster and encourage those practices. Makita does not have to expend the capital for R&D teams if all that they do is reverse engineer other companies innovations so overall costs are less for Makita. Makita is into evolution and not revolution. Please bear in mind that I have no ax to grind for I do not own any Festool tools and do own a Makita router and 8 1/4" circular saw.

Last edited by Marcel M; 08-23-2012 at 11:20 AM.
Marcel M is offline  
post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 03:39 PM
Registered User
 
Phil P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Phil
Posts: 2,117
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrysin View Post
By the way, that saw really is something, I'll bet that Porter Cable will, at this very moment be attempting to copy it without infringing patents!
I doubt that very much, Harry. P-C are owned by B&D, who in turn also own deWalt, who make this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel M View Post
Festool invented the plunge saw and Makita copied it. Festool invented the rail system and Makita copied it. Festool invented their systainer system and lo and behold the Makita plunge saw comes in a systainer type case with Festool type clamps a Festool type rail, protractor, stops, bars to join rails together. The Makita rail has been made compatible to the Festool rail in order to steal customers from Festool.
Hold on there, Marcel. The plunge saw idea isn't new - and didn't Holz-Her Mosquito plunge saws appear before Festool plunge saws? The Festool rail system certainly goes back to 1964, but I don't recall seeing a Festool (Festo) plunge saw until the 1980s - I believe the Holz-Her Mosquito appeared some ten years earlier and Elu were making a small one-hand plunge saw for sheet materials (the MH25) as early as 1960. In any case Hilti (plunge) saws have shared the same rail profile as Festool since the mid 1990s - whilst Elu (late 1980s) and Bosch (late 1990s) chose incompatible rail profiles meaning that back then you were locked-in to that manufacturer (at least for saws) for ever more unless you were willing to take a major financial hit and replace everything at the same time. "Standardisation" on the Festool rail profile by several makers means that my Festool saw will happily run on rails made by Hilti, Makita, Protool and Metabo as well as Festool (all of which interconnect - I have one Protool rail and one Makita rail as well as three Festool ones) and allows me in addition to purchase a new/replacement plunge saw in the future from Mafell, Bosch or deWalt (all of whose plunge saw products have their own rail systems but are double compatible with the Festool rail format) should I opt not to buy Festool again. That's the power of the free market economy at work - and as consumers we can all benefit from that!

BTW the Systainer is actually made Tanos, a subsidiary of Festool's parent firm and has been/is used for tools by firms as diverse as Lamello, Metabo, deWalt and even (for a short time) Bosch. That Makita opted to buy-in Systainers from Tanos is no surprise, although Makita also make a sort of "lookee-likee" pseudo-Systainer for some of their tools which is definitly NOT a Tanos-compatible box. At the same time some of my Bosch tools travel to work in Systainers boxes. Gasp! Shock! Horror! It shouldn't be allowed.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel M View Post
Probably the high cost of the Festool products has to do with Research & Development which is quite costly.
All of which is why Festool and others patent their products which gives them 16 years in which to recoop their original investment. Festool have had their money's worth out of their original investment and it's now become a de facto standard, just like the M39 threaded lens mount was on early Leica cameras. Properly managed it means that someone who buys a 165mm blade Makita (the SP6000K - or the Virutex version of this same saw) will be quite likely to consider the Festool TS75 should they need a large plunge saw in the future partly because it will run on their existing rails!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel M View Post
Makita does not have to expend the capital for R&D teams if all that they do is reverse engineer other companies innovations so overall costs are less for Makita. Makita is into evolution and not revolution
Really? Why is it then that Makita were one of the first tool firms to come out with a full range of 18 volt lithium-ion cordless power tools, quite a few of which can only be obtained from Makita or where they are available from others are incompatible with other parts of a tool kit (think chain saw, concrete vibro-poker, drywall screwdriver, etc). Makita have also been innovative in the design of the sliding compound mitre saw (first SCMS produced by Elu in the 1970s) - see the LS1016 and LS1216 models. By the same logic you use nobody except Fein should be allowed to make multitools, Lamello would be the only maker of biscuit jointers whilst Bosch should be the only company to make the jigsaw. What a dull world that would be!

The entire power tool world copies each other - Festool have sold a number of the old Holz-Her designs as theirs for a few years (laminate trimmers, belt sanders) and certainly bought-in their first two or three generations of dust extractors from outside firms such as Wap, whilst their first 1/2in plunge router (the OF2000) was actually designed and made for them by Mafell. Naughty Festool!

Regards

Phil
Phil P is offline  
post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-23-2012, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Marcel M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Marcel
Posts: 626
 
You are correct in that Holz-Her Karl M.Reich introduced their plunge saw in 1970 or 1971. In the 1986 catalogue Festo offered two plunge cut saws: the AXF 45 and the AXT 55. And in 1990 Festo already sold the ATF 55 plunge cut saw, which was the predecessor of the current TS 55 model. In Europe, the TS 55 was introduced in 2003. I wasn't complaining about "standardization" I just wanted to illustrate a point regarding Makita and reverse engineering.

Makita bought into the systainer idea in order to mimic Festool. I'm sure that Tanos figured that Makita would copy their designs with or without their help so why not make a few bucks on this marriage of convenience.

Your point is well made regarding patents. They made their money so now it's a free for all and we are the winners.

Makita just evolved the cordless power tool market but it was Black and Decker in conjunction with NASA that revolutionized that line of tools. Fein revolutionized the industry by introducing the multitool. Skill revolutionized the industry by introducing the circular saw and Bosch with the jigsaw. Makita just reverse engineered ELU when they introduced their SCMS. Thank you for helping me make my point. I reiterate "Makita is into evolution not revolution."
Marcel M is offline  
post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 05:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
First Name: frank
Posts: 26
 
Glad you didn't ask about POLITICS !!
frankr4ever is offline  
post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 06:59 AM
Official Greeter
 
jw2170's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Australia
First Name: James
Posts: 16,561
 
Send a message via Skype™ to jw2170
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankr4ever View Post
Glad you didn't ask about POLITICS !!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thats my belief anyway.....

...and the responses had nothing to do with the original question......

James
Sydney, Australia
.

I don't mind if other members disagree with my comments.
I don't profess to know everything, and I may learn something new.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."




jw2170 is online now  
post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Marcel M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Marcel
Posts: 626
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2170 View Post
...and the responses had nothing to do with the original question......
Still waiting.
Marcel M is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Benchtop Router Table, get a plate or go bare? silentblackhat Table-mounted Routing 38 05-30-2012 02:30 AM
Makita RF1101 Router timberthane General Routing 6 10-27-2011 11:57 AM
Anyone with a Makita 3601B plunge router? petar General Routing 16 07-22-2011 07:24 AM
Outlook Express problems BrianS Lobby 6 01-06-2008 07:23 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome