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**bobj3** · 02-12-2007, 02:39 PM

Hi Joe
Milling machines turn at a lower speeds,much lower

Spindle speed:
* Low: 0 - 1100 RPM
* High: 0 - 2500 RPM

Not all carb.tips are ground right on the button that's to say they can be off just a bit and most are.
They do this so each bit can do some of the work but still put out the right size.

Bj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Lyddon

Now, does this make sense...?

Given a router bit with 3 cutting edges on it...
It spins at thousands of RPM...
The distance between each cutter has to be insignificant at that speed... yes?
If the 1st cutter is sharp, isn't it doing all of the cutting and the rest merely keep the whole thing in balance spinning smoothly... while the the other 2 cutters are just spinning, doing nothing!?

Could it be that it's just a 'gimmick' to sell more product?
(do those extra blades really cut any hair or just scrape your skin for blood?!

)

Joe Lyddon · 02-12-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobj3

Hi Joe
Milling machines turn at a lower speeds,much lower

Spindle speed:
* Low: 0 - 1100 RPM
* High: 0 - 2500 RPM

Not all carb.tips are ground right on the button that's to say they can be off just a bit and most are.
They do this so each bit can do some of the work but still put out the right size.

Bj

I thought we were talking about Routers... (?)

Do they recommend you to turn down the RPMs?

**bobj3** · 02-12-2007, 03:47 PM

Joe

Yes,, but Mike put a post about mill ends and routers bit.
-------------------------
Are we back to routers bits ,,hahahahahahaha LOL

"Do they recommend you to turn down the RPMs?" yes, if they are raise panel bits.
Yes, also for mill ends, hahahahahaha

SPEED KILLS

in ALL formats

Bj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Lyddon

I thought we were talking about Routers... (?)

Do they recommend you to turn down the RPMs?

Charles M · 02-13-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobj3

Hi Charles

If I have a 10" saw blade that has 40 carb.tips and I want a nice clean cut I would use one that has 80 carb. tips .
If that's true it should be true for router bits also. yes ?

I guess I should say something about being safer also,if you have less voids in the cutting tool this sounds safer to me because most of the big bits turn at slower speeds less of a chance of jaming/caching.
Something like hack saw blades .

Bj

Your logic has some merits. A cutting tool with two wings that does not have cut limiters to reduce the effects of kickback is more likely to produce a serious kickback than one of the same profile with 4 wings. If both versions of the cutter have limiters the point is moot. The saw blade analogy is not exactly accurate because you are comparing using a general purpose (40T) blade and a crosscut blade (80T) to do crosscuts. If you use the crosscut blade to do rips you will get entirely different results. In fact, the increased number of tips will likely result in burning. The effect of increasing the number of cutting wings on a router bit is similar. Bits are engineered for a given chip load on each wing and the diameter of the cutter, the number of cutting wings, the RPMs of the cutter and feed rate are factors that go into the equation. If you double the number of wings you would need to double the feed rate to get the same chip size. Two problems arise from this: it is unsafe to double the feed rate when hand feeding and the motor will need a lot more torque to push the cutter. If the feed rate is kept the same the chip load is reduced to half and the result is that the cutter life is decreased and/or burning results. You should never feed a bit at a rate that is faster than you feel is safe so more wings is not always the right way to go.

**bobj3** · 02-13-2007, 11:13 AM

Hi Charles

Thanks for the feed back

I always enjoy (look forward) to your feed back because it's come from the horses mouth so to speak.

I know the 80T is made for crosscuts but when we do a panel we do both crosscut and rip so to speak with the panel bits, most of the time the feed rate is a bit slower on the end grain pass because the bit needs to work a bit harder to get the job done.

I know I have burn the ends of some panels but that's why I aways make a pass or two on raised panels most of the time but the 3 wing bits seems to do a better job with less of a load on the bit and the router.

But that's just my 2 cents.

I now have got to the point where I make just about all my panels with the Horz.router table and the Vertical Raised Panel Bits with a 2HP router and cut the back side of the panel on the standard router table to fit the 1/4" slot in the door frame with the Undercutter Bits it takes one extra step but they do come out clean and true and it's a bit safer.

Undercutter Bits I use ▼
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops.../raisvert.html
The router table ▼
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...horiztabl.html

I also use the Horz.router table for other jobs, any time the stock needs to set on edge on the standard router table, T & G for face frames,edge banding on plywood,mortise & tenon joinery,etc.

Bj

Charles M · 02-13-2007, 12:32 PM

Bj,

You are correct about router bits often performing double duty for across and with the grain so they really fall into the "general purpose" category. I guess in an ideal situation we would have specialized bits for each operation. The way we tackle the cross grain problems with our raised panel bits is by adding two secondary wings (2+2 design) that have downward shear to reduce chipping of the profile at the face of the panel.

**bobj3** · 02-13-2007, 01:09 PM

Hi Charles

Thanks for the feed back.

I have not tried one of the 2 + 2 bits out but I'm going to pick up one and give it a try out...

Thanks
Bj

2+2 Raised Panel Bits

# Revolutionary design combines two small wings that cut downward to shear the top edge for a splinter-free surface, and two large wings that shear upward for a smooth finish.
# Produces raised panels for doors and paneling.
# Use 1/2" height for 5/8" stock. Use 5/8" height for 3/4" stock.
# Ideal for creating decorative tops, plaques and moulding.

2+2 Raised Panel Bits with Backcutters

# Exclusive design combines the smooth cuts of our 2+2 Raised Panel bits with a backcutter to produce panels from 3/4" stock that are flush with the door frame for a professional look.
# Completed doors can be sanded with a wide belt sander or drum sander for easiest finishing.
# Shims are included to allow adjustment of tongue thickness from 7/32" to 1/4" for maximum versatility and compatibility.
# Patent pending design allows these bits to produce a full 11/2" wide reveal for traditional raised panel doors.
# Included 99-562 radius backcutter gives a double sided appearance and can be replaced with the optional 99-560 square backcutter for a more contemporary look.

http://www.freudtools.com/woodworker...d_Panel_1.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles M

Bj,

You are correct about router bits often performing double duty for across and with the grain so they really fall into the "general purpose" category. I guess in an ideal situation we would have specialized bits for each operation. The way we tackle the cross grain problems with our raised panel bits is by adding two secondary wings (2+2 design) that have downward shear to reduce chipping of the profile at the face of the panel.

02-13-2007, 11:13 AM	#15
bobj3 Forum Contributer Supreme Forum King Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Littleton,Colorado U.S.A. Posts: 8,271 View bobj3's Gallery	Report This Post! Hi Charles Thanks for the feed back I always enjoy (look forward) to your feed back because it's come from the horses mouth so to speak. I know the 80T is made for crosscuts but when we do a panel we do both crosscut and rip so to speak with the panel bits, most of the time the feed rate is a bit slower on the end grain pass because the bit needs to work a bit harder to get the job done. I know I have burn the ends of some panels but that's why I aways make a pass or two on raised panels most of the time but the 3 wing bits seems to do a better job with less of a load on the bit and the router. But that's just my 2 cents. I now have got to the point where I make just about all my panels with the Horz.router table and the Vertical Raised Panel Bits with a 2HP router and cut the back side of the panel on the standard router table to fit the 1/4" slot in the door frame with the Undercutter Bits it takes one extra step but they do come out clean and true and it's a bit safer. Undercutter Bits I use ▼ http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops.../raisvert.html The router table ▼ http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...horiztabl.html I also use the Horz.router table for other jobs, any time the stock needs to set on edge on the standard router table, T & G for face frames,edge banding on plywood,mortise & tenon joinery,etc. Bj Attached Thumbnails __________________ PodCast videos RWS on YouTube http://www.routerforums.com/86898-post1.html Besure and click on the Up Arrow key ▲ on the Youtube video, you can select other youtube videos on router tables http://www.woodworkingonline.com/?s=dovetail Machine Cut ▼ http://www.woodworkingonline.com/200...cut-dovetails/ http://www.woodworkingonline.com/woo...podcast-store/ http://www.woodshopdemos.com/menu2.htm Bob J. Last edited by bobj3; 02-15-2007 at 11:53 AM.
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02-13-2007, 12:32 PM	#16
Charles M Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: High Point, NC Posts: 181 View Charles M's Gallery	Report This Post! Bj, You are correct about router bits often performing double duty for across and with the grain so they really fall into the "general purpose" category. I guess in an ideal situation we would have specialized bits for each operation. The way we tackle the cross grain problems with our raised panel bits is by adding two secondary wings (2+2 design) that have downward shear to reduce chipping of the profile at the face of the panel. __________________ Charles M Freud America, Inc.
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