dado blade for spline joining - Router Forums

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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Default dado blade for spline joining

i got a table saw, and am interested in trying to make some boxes with miter spline joints. I've researched, and think i need a dado blade?
when i search to buy 10" dado blades there are a huge variety from single blades to sets, various types of teeth.

can anyone tell me the blade that would work best for what I'm trying to do?
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:08 PM
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I guess it depends on the thickness of your wood. Doing 3/4" you would be ok with a 1/8" blade cut. You could adjust the cut with just a regular blade. I have done many half laps joints on my radial arm with just a regular blade, sure it takes more time, BUT it works.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fire65 View Post
I guess it depends on the thickness of your wood. Doing 3/4" you would be ok with a 1/8" blade cut. You could adjust the cut with just a regular blade. I have done many half laps joints on my radial arm with just a regular blade, sure it takes more time, BUT it works.
by 'regular' blade, do you mean the one that comes with the saw?
i just ordered the
15-Amp 10-in Table Saw dewalt from lowes. i'm not sure if it even comes with a blade.

so when i walk into the store, what am i looking for a 10" _____ table saw blade

thanks... sorry i'm so under-educated on this. I appreciate your help.
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:28 PM
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First of all you need a blade with a flat bottom cut. Many saw blades have an angled cut on the top of the tooth. A dado that can be adjusted to different thicknesses is more flexible. The width of your spline will vary according to a number of factors such as number of splines, box size, strength desired, etc.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by denniswoody View Post
First of all you need a blade with a flat bottom cut. Many saw blades have an angled cut on the top of the tooth. A dado that can be adjusted to different thicknesses is more flexible. The width of your spline will vary according to a number of factors such as number of splines, box size, strength desired, etc.
small boxes (5"x12" ish) with 1/8" splines

so i'm asking for a 1/8" thick flat bottom cut 10" table saw blade?

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:44 PM
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here's just one more way to do it on the router table and it's safe and easy.

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fix...slot-jigs.html

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:44 PM
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Dado blade can get quite expensive I really don't see why you need a ten inch a eight inch will do (you can buy a single adjustable dado blade but they will not cut a flat bottom, I would not recommend one of these ) you have number of manufacturers of dado blades you have Forrester, freud , craftsman,CMT, and numerous others. The better ones cost more money this is one product I believe every shop should own buy a good one last a life time good luck
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Dado blade can get quite expensive I really don't see why you need a ten inch a eight inch will do (you can buy a single adjustable dado blade but they will not cut a flat bottom, I would not recommend one of these ) you have number of manufacturers of dado blades you have Forrester, freud , craftsman,CMT, and numerous others. The better ones cost more money this is one product I believe every shop should own buy a good one last a life time good luck
Shop DEWALT 15-Amp 10-in Table Saw at Lowes.com

Shop DEWALT 15-Amp 10-in Table Saw at Lowes.com

that is the table saw i ordered. it said 10", so i thought i needed 10" blades for it.

i'm really new to all of this. thanks for your patience. so an 8" standard blade that will cut a flat bottom, 1/8" thick cut?
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjonesphoto View Post
i got a table saw, and am interested in trying to make some boxes with miter spline joints. I've researched, and think i need a dado blade?
when i search to buy 10" dado blades there are a huge variety from single blades to sets, various types of teeth.

can anyone tell me the blade that would work best for what I'm trying to do?
Here... done w/ a single blade and not a stacked set up...

Woodworking - How to Make Spline Miter Joints - Wood Project ...

here's some information on blades.. hope this helps... sorry the associated pictures didn't post...
I can email the full attachment if you like, with pictures, all done in redundancy..

Hook Angles:

The hook angle is the amount of forward or backward lean each tooth has. A hook angle can be thought of as the angle at which the tip enters the material. If the saw tip enters the material at an angle it will be more efficient than if it slaps down flat.* A 20 degree positive hook angle is used on rip blades to pull the wood into the blade. Standard hook angles range from 5 to 15 degrees positive. Steeper angles, from 18 to 22 degrees, are most effective for ripping and cutting softer materials.* Hard materials require a shallow angle such as 6 degrees. Negative hook angles, usually -5 degrees, are used to prevent self-feeding of materials and give the operator maximum control over the feed of cut.
Using a saw blade with a positive hook angle to cut metal, such as aluminum trim, can be dangerous because the blade will have a strong tendency to grab the material causing the operator to lose control.* To prevent self-feeding, sliding miter saws and radial-arm saws require a blade with a negative tooth angle.
*In general, a blade with a positive hook angle is a faster-feeding blade and one with a negative hook is less aggressive.* One thing we need to add here is that you ALWAYS want a negative hook for cutting metal - it seems to work better for cutting Melamine too.

Tangential Clearance Angle:

You measure down the side of the tip and the difference it is the difference between front and back.* As you cut material it gets compressed and springs back after the cutting edge passes. A steep side clearance angle gives plenty of room for the material to expand and prevents heating and burning. However a very flat side clearance angle gives a smoother cut*

Top Clearance Angle:

The Top Clearance Angle is the angle between the top of the tooth and an imaginary line tangent with the cutting circle of the blade. This angle varies according to the hardness of the material being cut, 12 degrees for hard and 15 degrees for softer materials..

Cutting Angle:

The angle between the upper face of the saw blade and the material being cut. Also known as a rake angle.

Clearance Angle:

The angle between the lower face of a saw blade and the material being cut.
Radial Clearance Angle (Radial Side Clearance)
The clearance angle on the side of the tooth. You measure down the side of the tip and it is the difference between front and back.

Relief Angle:

The angle the top of the tooth makes away from the cutting edge to a line tangent to the blades circumference.
Two Kinds of Grinds (tooth shapes or tooth configurations)
The tip on the left has a very narrow side clearance.* This gives good cuts but heats up rapidly and wears a great deal compared to the more conventional grind on the right.

Saw Tip Configurations: (also Styles or Grinds)

The overall shape of a saw tip is called the "grind" because it is ground in after the tip is put on the saw body.

FTG: (Flat Top Grind)

Used on rip blades for fast, efficient cuts along the grain.* A square (also Flat or Flat Top) Grind is durable and long lasting. It is used for ripping and can be used on general purpose, thin kerf saw blades..

Advantages:
Strong, straight cutting and easy to maintain...
Disadvantages:
Takes a lot of force and likely to chip or tear out on exiting cut.* Not a good design for chip removal.

ATB: (Alternate Top Bevel)

The tops of alternating teeth are beveled to one side of the blade or the other at approximately 15 degrees. This creates a sharp point and a sharper cutting edge for better cut quality without chipping or splinters. ATB is generally used cross cutting wood, plywood, veneer, hardboard, fiberboard and particle board.*

Advantages:
Little or not tearout and easy chip removal....
Disadvantages:
Hard to sharpen without expensive equipment, easy to chip and wears rapidly.*

ATBR = (ATB with Raker)

High ATB: (Alternate Top Bevel with steeper angles)

Steeper bevel than the standard ATB for chip-free cuts on Melamine and plastic laminate without the use of a scoring blade. A High ATB is generally a blade with an angle over 20 degrees. It is used on brittle materials.

ATAF: (Alternate Top Bevel with Alternate Face Bevels)

Besides grinding the top at an angle you can also grind the face at an angle. When combined into an ATAF (Alternate top –Alternate Face grind) you get a sharper cutting, more pointed edge. This is used on the most brittle materials. You start with alternate slants on the tops then grind the faces of the tips so that they slant as well. Standard face left below and beveled face right.

Combination Tooth (4&1) - Planer/Combination:

Planer Combination combines 4 Alternate Top Bevel Teeth with 1 raker. The basic function of the raker tooth, which is lower than the tips of the scoring teeth and narrower. It removes the V-shaped piece of material left in the center of the cut by the alternating top bevel teeth. This tooth configuration provides a very smooth cut. Often each group is divided by a large gullet on the saw blade. The design is used on combination blades for ripping and crosscutting. You can use a simple ATB when you cut clean through but an ATB will leave a ridge down the middle of a groove. The raker tooth is lower and narrower than the ATB tips and cleans up that ridge. The raker also helps keep the blade square in the cut and the blade running straight.

Advantages:
Little tear out, good chip removal and straight cutting
Disadvantages:*
Hard to sharpen without expensive equipment, easy to chip and wears rapidly.

Hollow Ground:(HG)

Hollow faced grind used for cutting melamine and other challenging materials. Most often used on vertical panel saws. Here we show three types. Hollow ground is most commonly the circular shape but not always. In this case 'hollow ground' refers to the grind on the top of the tip but the face can also be ground in one of these shapes.

TCG: (Triple Chip Grind)

A Triple Chip Grind (TCG) has a trapezoidal tip that cuts a groove with slanting sides. This is followed up by a square top tip that makes the side of the groove square. The first tooth, or lead tooth, has a double 45 degree angle corner bevel. This is followed by a flat topped raker tooth ground lower than the lead tooth. The raker tooth removes the corners left on both sides by the beveled lead tooth. Triple Chip Grinds combines a balanced cutting force, low tooth drag and free chip flow. This helps to eliminate chipping in brittle material such as chip board, and laminates. This divides the chips to achieve smooth cuts in hard materials such as MDF, OSB, and plastics. This tooth design is also used on blades for cutting non-ferrous material. Use TCG grind when cutting plastics, aluminum, and non ferrous metals.

Advantages:
Good wear, straight cutting, Low drag with good chip flow.
Disadvantages:*
Hard to maintain without precision equipment. Tends to produce chip outs.

California Triple Chip:(C-TCG)

Specialty tooth design for miter saws. Used in picture frame shops, window and door manufacturers or anywhere that miter saws are used.

Solid Surface Scoring Blade:

Commonly used when you need clean cuts on both sides of the material.* The scoring blade cuts the underside of the material.* It cuts just ahead of the main blade which cuts from the top.* It must be precisely aligned with the top blade.* It is best if the moan and scoring blades are treated as a set and are both sharpened at the same time.

Conical scoring tip:

There are a great many other grinds and some of them are highly specialized. In a plant producing MDF or plywood panels the sides of the panel are trimmed after they are pressed and cooked. One side of the cut is the 4x8 sheet seen by the customer. The other side is scrap which gets reground. A saw blade in this application may have all the teeth cutting on one side.

Conclusion:

There are about a hundred parts to a saw blade depending on how you break them down. These are the saw tip, braze alloy, gullet size and shape, shoulder size and shape, expansion slots and the saw plate or steel saw body.

There are over five thousand grades of carbide with some wearing longer and some being tougher. Some slide through the cut faster and last longer while others are much harder to break. The braze material is much like the suspension in a car. It keeps the tip on and can prevent or eliminate tip loss and breakage. The gullet has to be the right size and shape to handle all the material the tooth cuts but you need as much metal as possible for strong shoulders behind the saw tips. The size and shape of the shoulder can help control the feed rate and a bump on the shoulder can be an important safety feature to control kickback. As a saw blade heats up the outside grows more than the inside so you need expansion slots to keep the blade flat and true. Finally different saw blades are made of different kinds of steel to increase wear, toughness and flatness.

In addition to all the design considerations, some blades are just made much better than others. An easy measurement is side clearance or how far the tip sticks out from the steel body. Some blades may have a variation of as much as 0.005" from one tip to another while others will be at least ten times more precisely ground with a variation of 0.0004".*

Hook angle...

If you put a straight edge from the center of the hole and out to the tooth tip, the angle of the cutting tooth in relation to the straight edge is the hook angle.

If there is a space there it is positive hook angle and if the tooth is partially behind the straight edge it is negative hook angle.

You would use a positive hook angle for a table saw where you push the wood through the blade.

You would use a negative hook angle for a sliding mitre box or radial arm saw where the wood is held stationary and the blade is pulled through. With a positive hook angle in this application, the blade would try to climb through the wood on its own and the operator would have to actually hold the sliding arm from going too fast. This is very dangerous, having to slow down the moving blade, so a negative hook angle is a must.

How ever...

A negative hook works well in a table saw when cutting AL, acrylic, cardboard, polycarbonite, melamine and composite flooring...
Assuming you start with a high quality blade, a higher tooth count will leave a cleaner cut. For 10", generally 60T to 80T is about right. It's worth noting that even though more teeth give a cleaner cut, there's no free lunch...more teeth also means more heat, more resistance, and more chance of burning, so a happy medium is suggested.

A low to negative hook angle (aka "rake") is recommended for a "sliding" CMS or a RAS, but you don't need a negative hook angle for a standard chop saw or CMS.* Anything with a hook of 15° or less is suitable for a CMS.*

Tooth grind is another important consideration.* A "Hi-ATB" grind is an Alternate Top Bevel (ATB) grind with a very steep bevel angle of ~ 25° to 40°.**(not to be confused with "hook angle". The higher the bevel angle of the teeth, the cleaner*slicing it'll be and*lower the*amount of tearout, but will also tend to have the shortest tip life of any grind. For a hobbyist, a good Hi-ATB blade can still last a long time if you keep it clean. Not always the best choice for higher volumes.
There are also several good choices with a standard "ATB" grind....not quite as clean cutting as the Hi-ATB, but will have slightly better tip life. For very high volumes, a triple chip grind (TCG) will give the longest edge life, but not necessarily the cleanest cut.

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 08:24 PM
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There's nothing wrong with owning a 10 inch dado blades I just don't know what use it would be you think the circumference of blade would 10" it would rise out of the saw 3 inches when will you ever cut a 3 inch deep dado. What is important is the number of chippers a shims you get to adjust to different with Widths and that is well balanced
Remember you will need a Dado insert for the saw you can either make one or buy one.
I personally try not to give a direct recommendation for certain tool everybody has to make your own choices unless it's really bad I don't mention it. Like most of the other forum members I've got a Lotta two's of different things only because I didn't buy the right one the first time.
Someone else might want to give your recommendation of a certain that dado blade to me if pay for Quality you normally get quality
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