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Table saw adjustment, any ideas?

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17K views 78 replies 22 participants last post by  Eazygeezer  
E
#1 ·
Well I have made some adjustments already, but thought I would fine tune today. Wanted to make my table saw sled as accurate as possible.

Unfortunately the slot is not parallel to the blade, please see the photos. Also the blade is 90 on the left side and not on the right, so it seems the table is also not totally flat.

The saw is a Clarke ct10d, budget model really. I was hoping to be fairly accurate though.

Can anyone advise me of how to adjust blade to slot?

Thanks
 

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#3 ·
Lee quite often there's bolts holding the assemble on underneith the table . You loosen them off and snug up one corner and tap the assembly underneith till you get it in spec. Once you tighten it may actually go out of spec again , so it's trial and error .

You are turning the blade and making sure your measuring off the same tooth of the blade I'm assuming ?
 
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#5 ·
For starters, Lee, pick one carbide tooth and mark it with a felt marker. That's the only reference point that you're going to use on the blade. The reasoning is that you don't really know how truly flat the blade body is...no need to introduce more variation into the equation. Just use that one tooth, and rotate the blade by hand. I noticed that you're gauging to the blade body, not a tooth...or at least it looks that way in the picture(?).
Nothing wrong with a caliper, but you can also just clamp a piece of stock to your mitre gauge, run it through the saw, turn the saw off and compare the 'fit' at both the front and back of the blade. obviously it should be the same. Just kisses at the front, same at the back. If not then go to the next step.

Do the same with your rip fence. slide a small piece of stock across to the fence (locked) and clamp the piece to your Mitre gauge. With the blade out of the way, slide the mire gauge down to the back end and check it there.
If the blade's parallel to the mitre slot then in theory the fence should also be. Having said that, the general consensus around here is that the back end of the rip fence should fall away from the blade by a couple thousandths of an inch at the back end so it it doesn't cause a bind when material gets past the blade.
 
#6 ·
Sorry...our comments passed each other.
I don't see any pictures(?).
Put them on your desktop, then drag them over into that dotted portion below the texting field. If it doesn't show up on your screen then it isn't attached.
It says "Drag and Drop File Upload"
 
T
#15 ·
A dial indicator is probably the most accurate way to do it, rotating the blade to take readings at the front and back. It's a little difficulat to get the tip of the indicator on the point of the carbide so I screw in a flat point which makes the job way easier. You can buy them in different styles/sizes for around $5 and they should fit the standard 4-48 thread on the indicator stem. I bought mine from Enco, has a 1/4" diameter point which makes it easy to pick up the "tip" of the carbide tooth. Buy SPI Flat Drop Indicator Contact Points from UseEnco

I'm getting ready to recheck my blade to slot alignment before setting up a new cross-cut sled, and will take a couple of photos if I remember.

Tom
 
J
#8 ·
Buy, borrow or beg "Care and Repair of Shop Machines" by John White: a treasure of practical information for tuning up table saws, and several other woodworking power tools. He suggests using a dial indicator method similar to Ratbob's, but instead of testing against a blade, measure a point on a 10" x 2.5" plywood piece (with a hole sized to match the saw arbor). The longer radius, compared with the saw blade, shows any discrepancy more readily. I can't recommend the book highly enough.
 
#9 ·
Mounting a reference face to the arbor is a great idea John, but I wouldn't trust plywood. It has to be a dimensionally stable, flat surface, plywood warps too easily. Remember that we are measuring differences in thousandths of an inch. A misalignment of just 10 thousands across 6 inches translates to almost 1/8th of an inch along a 6' cut.
 
#12 ·
I use a 10 inch round plate that Craftsman sold long ago as an attachment for you to be able to use your table saw as a disc sander. It's the same process, mark a spot on the plate to use as a reference front and back. It's just a lot easier for my ancient eyes to see than trying to measure to the edge of a saw tooth.
 
#13 ·
On smaller saws you adjust the mandrel as previously mentioned. Large stationary cabinet style table saws have a fixed mandrel so you loosen the bolts that hold the tale top on and move it until it's square with the blade. Judging by the design of your top I would say your saw falls into the first category.
 
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#20 ·
Hi, guys.

I am having the same problem with my chinese TS. All the tips sound great for me, so I will try them as soon as possible. I have a laser instrument for measurement of distances. I will find a way to use it for this purpose.
 
#21 ·
You know... LOL. (Said before by another member...)

I have a miter bar I made for adjusting my TS'es, that I used to mount my dial indicators to... I haven't used them in a few years.

I still tune my saws, and other's saws. I have a pice of oak that I clamp to my miter gauges and my cross-cut fences. At the end of that pice, on the blade side is a pilot drilled hole, that I screwed a brass wood screw into. I put a pen mark near the edge of the blade and take all measures from than mark. Using thsi may seem like a step backwards, but my experience , it saves me time with no loss in accuracy. Sometimes using "too" accurate a tool can cause you to chase down your zero in false readings.

I align the trunions using that gauge with the blade at 90 degrees and at 45 degrees. Look to my past posts on TS tuning for tips. I had also included some tips for less expensive saws... but I'll recap some of those. On less expensive saws, it it harder to get a zero. They don't have heavy trunions that can be adjusted. Fo instance the lower end Ryobis have bent steel strap, with a hole on each end as their trunions. I've mod'ed those with filing the holes into slots and shimming them. You almost have to cheat the lower end saws sometimes. But heck, that is part of why they were a deal right? They can be made accurate, they just don't keep a tune like a cabinet saw, so have to be adjusted more often.
 
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#22 ·
Progress update:
Been out for the last 90 minutes attempting to adjust the table top. It has I'm afraid turned out to be a fruitless exercise :(

The saw is secured to the table top with 6 screws, one of which rounded as I was attempting to remove it :(
The body of the table is secured to the rectangular top via 8 additional screws, there is some small room for adjustment on these, however because the saw blade is secured directly to the table, moving the table top has zero effect whatsoever.

I have approx 1.8mm of runout over the 10" blade. I used my combination square in the mitre slots against the same tooth several times to be absolutely certain.

So now I am in a bit of a quandary, i am going to ring the technical team and see if they can offer any other advice or adjustment methods. If I get no joy I have a 12 month guarantee so I could take it back......
 
#25 ·
Eazygeezer said:
Progress update:
Been out for the last 90 minutes attempting to adjust the table top. It has I'm afraid turned out to be a fruitless exercise :(

The saw is secured to the table top with 6 screws, one of which rounded as I was attempting to remove it :(
The body of the table is secured to the rectangular top via 8 additional screws, there is some small room for adjustment on these, however because the saw blade is secured directly to the table, moving the table top has zero effect whatsoever.

I have approx 1.8mm of runout over the 10" blade. I used my combination square in the mitre slots against the same tooth several times to be absolutely certain.


So now I am in a bit of a quandary, i am going to ring the technical team and see if they can offer any other advice or adjustment methods. If I get no joy I have a 12 month guarantee so I could take it back......
Click to expand...
It's unfortunate that you never had an impact driver . I had to buy one because bike engines have these nasty screws that easily strip. Couldn't go without one now.
They may have used lock tight on your saw giving you grief , that's where impact drivers really help
 
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#27 ·
suggest you do that to the blade body and not to the tooth...
more accurate readings...
 
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#28 · (Edited)
I did both - on the point on the side of the tooth with the flat tip and on the blade with a rounded tip - I'll edit the post to clarify that the second set of measurements, with the rounded tip, were taken on the face of the blade (Apparently I can't edit the post now, sorry if I wasn't clear). No difference in the readings.

I'm sure I read somewhere that recommended using the tooth rather than the blade, I'll have to keep digging through the paper archives as it's apparently not been scanned on to my computer yet. I would agree that using the normal indicator tip would be difficult, if not impossible, to get good consistent reading - it just made sense to use the flat indicator tip. It is interesting that all the non-dial indicator methods - combination square in the miter slot and feeler gauge at the tooth and the screw head and block of wood clamped to the miter gauge - all use the tooth. I always use a rip tooth blade as it has a more distinct "point" on the side of the tooth and so easier to pick up with the flat on the indicator.
 
#29 ·
Tom I think you only have a half hour after you post to make changes. Any of the Mods have unlimited time time to make changes if it is something really important.

I've seen both methods recommended. Since the tooth is welded to the body, if you get get a different reading from one to the other I would think that you have a really serious problem that the blade is likely not a part of.
 
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#30 ·
I've only ever heard 'tooth'.
I'm assuming that's because the grinding/sharpening process addresses the teeth.
It's only the teeth that make the cut, so knowing their relative position seems logical(?).
Having a dedicated alignment plate however also makes a lot of sense.
 
#31 ·
teeth can be all over the place...
tooth is more consistent...
the body is more consistent still...
 
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#32 ·
Both sets of measurements were taken at the same tooth, rotating the blade back and forth for each measurement, it's not real clear in the photos, but you can see the "X" on the body next to the teeth - I was trying to get the DI reading in the photo and the "X" doesn't show up as well.

Here's an article from Carbide Processors on the process of sharpening carbide saw teeth Index of Articles on Saw Blade Sharpening They have a chart showing the measurement that I was using, the side of the tooth, for each tooth around the circumference - most teeth are zero, variation seems to be .0005" +/- on the one side (.001" TIR) but they say that a .001" variation is very good and .002" variation is common.

It's a very informative article, mostly explaining how a sharpening job can be botched. I have an Amana blade that I've used for many years that needs to be sharpened and I'm now nervous about it as the company that we used for years closed and I'll have to try somewhere new. Back then, we sent our blades to a couple different companies before settling on the one, and there were a couple of times early on where the blade actually cut worse after sharpening. I'm thinking it may be wise to take a "trial" blade down and have it sharpened before taking some of my good ones down.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Tom--

Since you have dial indicator, did you first check the run out on the shoulder of your arbor shaft? (just asking)

I then check mine about a inch down from the edge on blades, at a marked spot. Note not to use pencil for the mark, as a pencil mark can and is enough to vary across the mark. Ink marker is more consistent for accuracy. I had bought a TS sanding disk plate, that is true... that I use just for alignments.

Stick is right on teeth can be anywhere. Sharpening does not grind on the sides of teeth, just the face to the teeth. Carbide teeth are more consistent than HS. HS has teeth that have the teeth "set." (L/R)

Some ask how accurate is enough? It's just woodworking... right? I've always gone off of the idea that the more accurate your sero is on tooling, the more allowance you have for user error.
 
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#35 ·
MAFoElffen said:
Tom--

Since you have dial indicator, did you first check the run out on the shoulder of your arbor shaft? (just asking)



Stick is right on teeth can be anywhere. Sharpening does not grind on the sides of teeth, just the face to the teeth. Carbide teeth are more consistent than HS. HS has teeth that have the teeth "set." (L/R)

Some ask how accurate is enough? It's just woodworking... right? I've always gone off of the idea that the more accurate your sero is on tooling, the more allowance you have for user error.
Click to expand...
Mike,

I didn't check the arbor runout this time as I was fixated on the parallelism check but will do that when I get out there later today.

The article on grinding teeth in Carbide Processors web site addresses side grinding of the teeth, and I remember the company that used to sharpen our blades (sadly now out of business) showing that being done when we toured their shop at the time. I pulled that blade out of the saw - the reason behind the parallelism check was getting ready to install a new sled - but it's easy enough to drop it back in and check tooth-to-tooth (only 24 teeth fortunately). A new blade, although an economy grade from Lowes that I bought for ripping fairly wet treated lumber for a turtle planter that I was making, so it has never been sharpened and this will be an indication of the initial quality.

As far as accuracy of the set-up, I agree with you. If you're going to take the time to check, you might as well get it as close as you can - within reason of course, no sense in chasing that elusive half thousandth. Before I retired my radial arm saw, I was always frustrated when squaring the blade up to the table - the adjustment is just a friction fit so tightening the (4) bolts always managed to move the blade slightly out of square. Eventually, it became second nature to adjust slightly past square, judging how much the assembly would rotate as the bolts were tightened and hope for the best.
 
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