What Is The Best Deal for a 4 Foot by 4 Foot Hi Accuracy Hi Repeatability Machine - Router Forums
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post #1 of 117 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Default What Is The Best Deal for a 4 Foot by 4 Foot Hi Accuracy Hi Repeatability Machine

I know nothing about wood working, I want to get into hi quality 3d wood carving basically I would like to learn how to make very detailed wood carvings of animals, nature, or what ever I want to learn how to make it look good like the wood carved pictures on etsy

I would greatly appreciate any info or opinions

I am in Texas and I prefer it to be shipped to me from the USA unless there is something I dont know

I dont care about if free software comes with machine

Not sure if I should care about a getting a machine with a lot of support like a forum or a machine that is popular

4 axis for carving logs is not that important to me, might be nice to get a machine that I could add it later on maybe years from now but I could live without it


this place says they are wholesale and that is why they can sell cheaper, is there a reason why I should not go with this machine for such a low price ?
IEC1212 CNC Router $3,199.00


this looks like the machine above but i guess it is more because they are not the wholesaler ?
Automation Technologies KL-1212 CNC Router 48 x 48 inch $6,199


JCUT-1212 $2950 on ebay free shipping from china


Pilot Pro 5050 DIY Kit $6,100.00
5050 Stand $1400.00


Pilot Pro 5050 Assembled $6,550.00
5050 Stand $1400.00


shark HD4 extended $4,999.99
2 foot by 4 foot which is smaller than I want anyways
I was interested in shark HD4 but then I read a lot of people saying something about the machine sways or what ever because it has plastic where it should have metal and the machine can not do what other machine can do because of this


Camaster Stinger II SR-44 Starting at $12,995


Laguna Swift CNC Router 4′ x 4′ 3HP $13,645


Axiom Elite Series AR16 ELITE $13,999

Last edited by Clay.; 04-30-2019 at 07:58 PM.
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post #2 of 117 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 09:01 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Clay! Add your first name to your profile so it shows in the side panel. Add your location, as well. That often helps us to help you.

What space and power do you have available? The footprint of the machine needs to be considered along with the bed size. Some 4x4 machines are pretty large and others just slightly larger than the bed.

Of the ones you mentioned, and budget fitting, I would get the CAMaster. The handful of guys I know who have that machine really like them.

Do you have the supporting woodshop to prepare your stock for cutting on the CNC?

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post #3 of 117 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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woodshop not sure if that is the name of some software

if that is not the name of some software no i am going to try to fit it in a room in the house

why is the camaster better ?

can the camaster make more finer detail ? this is mostly only thing i care about

the wholesaler that sells the IEC1212 CNC Router $3,199, has a 4x8 foot IEP1325 machine that has better specs for details than the IEC1212
and it is $4,999

there is a ebay seller selling a 1325 4x8 foot for $3,777
if you google "1325 router furniture cabinet door machine on sale free ship for May Day Holiday"

i dont understand what makes camaster a better deal for someone like me that just wants to learn how make art pictures out of wood to sell
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post #4 of 117 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 10:49 PM
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Most of those cheaper machines ship from china, and shipping (and tariffs) is not included in those prices. Shipping can be a significant additional cost (there is usually no shipping included on any of the machines prices). They will also come with little to no documentation, training or support. Depending on your experience and knowledge, these can be very important. Those with "free" shipping is usually only to the nearest ocean port - you will be responsible for picking up from port (and paying any tariffs due) and shipment to your location. Not too bad if you live in Long Beach, more of an issue if you live in Denver.

The automation technologies machine is one of the Chinese machines, but imported by a US company that will provide documentation and support.

CAMaster is US built, well documented and well supported, with factory training available, which is why it has been recommended.

There are other options in the price range, including shopsabre or shopbot. One option you may wish to consider is a kit machine from CNC Router Parts or Fineline Automation. You would need to assemble yourself, but they are good machines at a lower price.

Note that 3D carvings are very time consuming, especially one anywhere near the 4 x 4 size. They can easily take 20 hours or more. The more detail you want (and the smaller bit used to cut it) the longer it takes. Here the speed of the machine can play a big role, a machine that can 3d carve at 400ipm will take much less time than one that can only do it at 100ipm. Do not be mislead by the quoted "rapid" speeds, try to find cutting speeds.

When David asked about the rest of the shop, it was referring to tools to prepare large glue ups (need to be able to joint and plane and cut boards to size before glue ups, or before putting onto CNC. You will also need dust collection (a vacuum won't be enough). Also most of those machines require 220V power. Most people would not want them in the house (probably can't fit through anything smaller than a garage door anyway). Off the machine, you will need to sand and apply a finish to create a finished carving.

How are you intending to create the artwork (designs) to cut? Some of the software to create 3d models runs $1600 and up, and there is a signifiant learning curve. Between the time it takes to create the files, and the time it takes to run them, such carvings must often sell for a considerable cost to represent a reasonable return.

My DIY machine has a cutting area of 49" x 60" and cost me $2800. You will not get anywhere near that price buying commercially.

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post #5 of 117 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 11:38 PM
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First, Welcome to the Router Forums.

I'm also in Texas.

The IEC1212 CNC Router $3,199.00 is sold by a company in Pennsylvania but they are made in Asia and shipped from Asia. I contacted their tech support (they only have email support). You will have to pay import duties and taxes plus the $700 shipping cost for this unit (not the $10 shipping cost they show, that is if you buy 25 of them they will only charge $10 shipping for each one) to get it to the US and may have additional shipping fees from the port of entry to your location. They say they will issue an invoice with reduced cost shown so you can pay less import taxes and duties, THIS IS ILEGAL and I would not want to get involved with any company that would do something like that. Tech support was in broken English so I question if they could answer any questions with a reasonable answer. I am attaching the picture of the machine as they show it on their site. If you notice there is only one gantry upright support. I ask their tech support person if this is how that model CNC is made and they said yes it just has the one upright arm. I don't really think that is how they build this model but that is how tech support says the machine is built. on the discription page for this model it says it has a Two Year Limited Warranty but on their Terms and Conditions page they say One year warranty and "Should a return for repair be necessary, buyer need ship it back to our warehouse at Asia at own cost. The unit must be insured for the full retail value. If the unit is shipped by a non-approved company or is not in original packaging when it arrives, IEHK reserves the right to refuse the shipment.

I think I would really bypass this one!
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post #6 of 117 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 11:57 PM
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Methinks this is going to be an interesting thread to follow.
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post #7 of 117 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 12:07 AM
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Automation Technologies KL-1212 CNC Router 48 x 48 inch $6,199

There are several reasons that this machine cost more that the IEC1212 CNC Router $3,199.00

This machine is imported to the USA and taxes and duties are already piad for and I'm sure they do it legaly. This is a rack and pinion machine with Nema 34 steppers. It has a gantry height of 8", twice as much as the other machine. It runs on the well known well documented Mach 3 control software not the PCI, Ncstudio that is poorly documented. This one has a vaccum table built in and the other does not. It has a one year USA parts warranty. They have a USA based phone tech support as well as email support.

So this machine is worth a lot more as far as I'm concerened.
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post #8 of 117 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 12:45 AM
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The JCUT-1212 $2950 on ebay free shipping from china

Has a 6" gantry height.
It has small stepper motors so that limits speed and torque.
It uses NcStudio or you can pay an extra $400 for motion a controller that will run on Mach 3 (that does not include the Mach 3 software or pay $500 for DPS control.
For software, it lists Type 3 (not sure what that is), ArtCut and ArtCam which are probably pirated copies that no telling how old the versions are, there will be no support for the software.
The spindle is a 1.5kw with an ER 11 collet and that limits you to 1/4" bits and will be underpowered for some projects.
You have the cost of shipping to your location from the seaport and cost of taxes and other fees. You will be importing it so you will also need to get a broker to help you get it into the USA and will have to pay his fee(this is probably required for the first CNC also). The second machine will not require a broker or that additional fee.
They also offer to give you an invoice lying about how much you paid for it so you can save on the import fees. This is against the law and you could get in a lot of trouble you don't need.

Again I would avoid this machine.
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post #9 of 117 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 01:23 AM
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Pilot Pro 5050 DIY Kit $6,100.00 or assembled for $6,550
5050 Stand $1400.00

This is a lighter weight machine.
Small Nema 23 stepper motors will limit feed rates.
Set up to use a trim router (Bosch Colt). They do offer a 2.2kw spindle but it might add to flex in the system.
They don't say what software they include so I would say it is probably free open source software or limited trials. I would not consider it in the value of the CNC.
They say Z axis of 7" to 12" for their machines. That's interesting. They also show those pictures of someone walking and hanging on the gantry. I would not one of the ones they did that to.
They have several add-ons available that will just add to the cost.

To me it is pricy for what it is but that is my opinion.
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post #10 of 117 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 01:48 AM
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shark HD4 extended $4,999.99

A lot of plastic that just adds to the flex of the machine.
Small Nema 23 stepper motors, they are slightly bigger than the original HD steppers but still limit feeds. Not really a problem because you have to work within the flex limits of the CNC, they are just limited.
Several people have reported that theirs was out of square from the factory and I have squared 3 of them for my customers and have one more to do for another customer. They are not checking the alignment at the factory to let that many get past them.
Two of the new ones I have worked on were missing screws, one had 2 screws missing in the router mount, the other one and a screw missing in the router mount and one missing on the gantry plate. Again a quality control problem.
Tech support is hit or miss. They know the standard answers but have problems with the more technical questions. I have an older Shark and have to get registration codes for all my equipment every year. They always send some bad codes the first time and I have to go through the process again to get codes that allow me to use my equipment. I actually have 3 of their machines, I won't buy another one.
Proprietary control software. You could build your own controller to get passed that proprietary software but you would still have a machine with a lot of flex and slow speeds.

One plus is part of that cost is for the Vectric VCarve Pro software.

Like I said I would not buy another one but I will say that if you stay within the limits of the machine they will do a decent job.
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