Advice Making Casement Windows - Router Forums
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
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Default Advice Making Casement Windows

Hi,
If you look at my profile you can see the range of power tools I have.

I've been looking into this for a while. I'm intending to make my own replacement windows.Casement with flush fitting sashes ( flush fitting like in photo B ) with a top and side opener, also another window style with just one fixed sash and top opener as on the right hand side of the front of the house.

This is how I've been thinking, I'm proposing to rebate all around the window frame, the opening sashes will flush close into the rebates. I'm trying to explain how I've been thinking about doing things. bare in mind please. I'm not sure if I'm using the right window nomenclature, scantlings, window sash, frame side jamb etc.

I'm Intending to make the same style but in hardwood as in picture titled ( Window Style )
In a wooden design a center mullion from top to bottom in the middle would be required, mortise and tenon jointing again?

This house front is one of the next pair of semis to my own semi. Has exact same front brickwork opening. I enlarged the photo and printed it out then to scale it up used a plastic ruler like 10mm = 4cm whatever. Did this so could go to glazing people and find out rough cost of glazed units.

The static non opening window ( light ) in the frame will have a shallower rebate as no sash will be fitted into it, just the glazing unit with molding pinned over to hold in position. ( as in photo E ) In the past I've gone into the correct way of bedding glazed units into wood sashes so that they don't fail.

The sashes I propose making, from what I know, are relatively straightforward and plain, nothing fancy, that requires special tooling. My sash design consists of rebated rails and stiles, mortise and tenoned to each other. with molding strips pinned in place to hold the glazing units in position in the rebate. A haunched tenon and mortise might be more stable but my power tool skill set isn't up to that I think. The window frame the side jambs are tenoned into the head jamb and bottom cill, window board. I have information on using battens tacked to the frame to ensure is completely square when gluing and clamping up.

One of the things I find perplexing, running a rebate all along down the complete edge of a board is straightforward.

On the sash stile though, the rebate doesn't run the whole length, it stops short where the top rail joints into the stile with the tenon, into the stile mortise. I can't work out how this can be done, drill a hole or something to depth of rebate then use a router cutter to make rebate then square up end point with a chisel?

I intend to use, as will be outdoors, air dried French Oak which will be already acclimatized to being outside. French Oak available at I think a good price here, Ebay UK item number 320991213120 not all sizes seem to be available.

Rip it on the table-saw to within couple of mm then get it exact on the thicknesser. I also have a planing jig that I can use on the Dewalt thickesser. If that doesn't produce satisfactory results, I have a friend who has a 10 inch planer who would plain any timber I need done.

Also if use a tenon like in picture titled Tenon photo, if I run a rebate along the rail edge won't it interfere with the tenon shape, cheek and perhaps strength? I assume the depth of the window frame side jamb should be enough, wide enough to sit on and cover, the inside and outer course of bricks in the external wall. That said I don't understand how to work out how wide I should have the frame jambs same with the dimensions of sash stiles and rails.

Is quite a gig stumbling block for me to work out the relative dimensions of the various window components. How wide should the frame jambs be, how wide should the sash stile and rails be all in relation to each other.

Once I understand the relative sizes of the various window components. I can then get an idea of what the timber would cost me.
I might be required by building regulations to router in slots in the head jamb for air trickle vents.

The glazed units can have a depth of 22mm.The original windows I'm replacing had no cill just a frame, mine won't be made with a cill but interior window board.
The frame jambs are tenoned into mortises in the top jamb and window cill, window board.I have trade quality Dewalt Thickness/ planer and other stuff.
Any guidance you could me would be very much appreciated,
Peter.
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Last edited by Gaia; 07-25-2014 at 04:41 AM.
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 07:11 AM
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Gaia, I made window frames using this basic shape . All cuts were made on my table saw. My dimensions were different but the type of cuts were the same. It worked out great!
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 11:01 AM
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Peter; you've probably already done your research on hardware, so hopefully you've decided WHITCO is your best bet for hinging...
http://www.whitco.com.au/Local/AU/Do...20Brochure.pdf
As long as you give them a bit of a cleaning every few years, and a drop of lubricant on the rivets, they'll outlast you.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 11:09 AM
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Peter in days gone by workers were expected to be craftsmen of their trade. Nowadays they are expected to show up and run a machine that takes care of the craftsmanship for them. I wouldn't expect that a factory these days would have someone chisel out corners to complete a rebate. In cabinet doors the profiles go to the ends of the stiles and the matching reverse profile gets cut into the ends of the rails so I would say that this is the most likely possibility but it could affect the tenons if the rebate is wide enough.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninVan View Post
Peter; you've probably already done your research on hardware, so hopefully you've decided WHITCO is your best bet for hinging...
http://www.whitco.com.au/Local/AU/Do...20Brochure.pdf
As long as you give them a bit of a cleaning every few years, and a drop of lubricant on the rivets, they'll outlast you.
Thanks, I've looked into hardware.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
Peter in days gone by workers were expected to be craftsmen of their trade. Nowadays they are expected to show up and run a machine that takes care of the craftsmanship for them. I wouldn't expect that a factory these days would have someone chisel out corners to complete a rebate. In cabinet doors the profiles go to the ends of the stiles and the matching reverse profile gets cut into the ends of the rails so I would say that this is the most likely possibility but it could affect the tenons if the rebate is wide enough.
Hi Charles and thanks,
" In cabinet doors the profiles go to the ends of the stiles and the matching reverse profile gets cut into the ends of the rails "
I'm not using stick and cope joinery, just making rebates.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 06:27 PM
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Peter the best person to ask would probably be Phil P. I haven't seen him post in quite a while, probably because he is busy, but he might answer a PM. He may have built windows like those before. Router Forums - Members List

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 07:20 PM
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Default Stopped rebate

Peter; what Charles is saying is that you can run all the rebates on the TS...long pieces of stock if you like. Then do your tenoning based on the rail allowance for the rebate already precut. Does that make sense?
I just did a quick sketch to illustrate why the rebate is 'stopped', when you remove the rest of the material on the mating piece to the full height of the frame members.
No attempt to show any joinery...just the rebates:
(please pardon my crappy draughting!)
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2014, 09:45 PM
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Peter the other option is to build the frame with the opening using mortise and tennon joinery. If you do not feel comfortable making this joint the other option is to make a floating tenon.

To make a floating tenon you can make a jig or set up your router table to make the mortises and then cut some tenons to match.

From the pictures shown you can build this in simple sections and then to make the rebate may I suggest a rabbeting bit in a hand router. Once the frame is built and is square you can run a rabbeting bit on the inside to fit the glass. Once the rabbet is cut measure the opening and cut the glass to fit and then corresponding trim to secure the glass in place.

If you use Google Sketch up send me the measurements of the frame and the glass. I will draw this is Sketchup to help show you how to do it.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2014, 01:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninVan View Post
Peter; what Charles is saying is that you can run all the rebates on the TS...long pieces of stock if you like. Then do your tenoning based on the rail allowance for the rebate already precut. Does that make sense?
I just did a quick sketch to illustrate why the rebate is 'stopped', when you remove the rest of the material on the mating piece to the full height of the frame members.
No attempt to show any joinery...just the rebates:
(please pardon my crappy draughting!)
I think I understand what you are saying? Run the the rebate down the complete length of the sash stile then cut the tenon? I'm afraid can't make much sense of your drawing. Can you try to explain in a different way what you are trying to convey?
Thanks.
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