High gloss sanding tip - Page 2 - Router Forums
 35Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
Moderation Team
 
difalkner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
First Name: David
Posts: 2,632
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoSkies57 View Post
David...

DO NOT give the car polish a try until you have tried it and experimented with it. I'm sure I don't have to tell ya how I know this *L*
Thanks, Bill, but I've been using this Meguiars on guitars for over 30 years. Works great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRatTom View Post
I've never heard of using such fine grits. I would use a card scraper to get a near perfect, high gloss surface. All that sanding has got to raise the grain, and you're going to lose a LOT of wood in the process. A card scraper requires a bit of practice, but makes a beautiful surface.
The sanding isn't raising the grain, Tom, because it's all under the shellac. I did use a card scraper when the back was flat and before the braces were glued on. The Micromesh I have goes down to 12,000. I may not go that far but I have the option. At that point I can polish by hand without having to use a buffing wheel. Matter of fact, if I just go to 6,000 I can probably do the polishing by hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoSkies57 View Post
David... are you block sanding or just using your hands?
Block sanded the wood before the finish and using the same block now. No surprises that way. The only places not getting block sanded are on the neck in the small detail areas.


The Mahogany was sanded to 320 and then I used a card scraper. The shellac went on very smoothly but it still needs to be leveled if you want the pores filled, which I do. To fill the pores you can either use a pore filler - many different kinds available - or use the finish to fill the pores. I chose the latter. By applying the shellac and sanding it back down, then wiping the slurry across the grain, the pores were filled in no time. Each subsequent coat of shellac melts into the previous and as you keep sanding and taking the finish back down to a base level you finally reach the point where you can go to the finer and finer grits.

To add to what I replied to Dan @DaninVan earlier on the drywall and the low spots, in retrospect it is very different. As Bill said on the wood having high/low spots, that's something I took care of in the bare wood stage. The back on this guitar is only 0.100" thick so you can't just go 'sanding crazy' once it's together. If it was the 3/4" top to a table I'd have plenty of leeway on getting the top surface flat but on this curved surface it had to be right before I glued the first brace on (the back has a domed 15' radius). Obviously there were some very minor areas that sanding and scraping took care of but before the first coat of shellac went on the back was flat (except for the dome radius...).

So where the difference comes in is that with drywall once you get the wall flat you're typically going to texture it and then paint it. All of that serves to hide any sanding scratches and minor irregularities. With the guitar and a high gloss, very thin, transparent finish that luxury of having a cover-up opaque finish is gone. Every irregularity will show. So all of the scratches have to be so small that they can't be seen.

Same with painting cars - once you get the panels flat and sanded to as fine as you want to go the car gets sprayed with an opaque paint that is usually not sanded before the clear coat goes on. And unless you're doing a show car the clear coats of today don't get sanded and buffed out to a high gloss. The clear coat just dries to a high enough sheen that further buffing and leveling isn't required. It may have a slight bit of orange peel but that's also acceptable in most car finishes, to a degree.

The final way that none of this is the same is the film thickness. Guitars are built to sound good, not just look good. The thicker the finish the poorer the guitar sounds. So I don't have the luxury of building coats to the point I'm so far away from the wood that sanding through is no longer a possibility. Nope, the finish is somewhere around 2 mils to no more than 3 mils thick and I don't want it to go any thicker.

Nitrocellulose lacquer is what I've used on guitars before and it's much easier. There's a lot of debate as to which sounds better but that's another topic. I'm using a French polish technique with the shellac more because I wanted to see if I could get the finish like I want. I know I can get it in lacquer.

Either way it's a fun build!
David
DesertRatTom and Herb Stoops like this.

David

Curly Wood Shop on Etsy
David Falkner - Woodworking YouTube channel and Instagram
Our music at church - current videos Airline Baptist BC Facebook Live
Romans 3:23
difalkner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 08:53 PM
Forum Contributor
 
DesertRatTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Tom
Posts: 16,826
 
Default

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Now I understand. I guess a thick coating will dampen the vibration and suppress the resonance. Very cool project, hope you'll post a picture or two of the final result.
difalkner likes this.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
DesertRatTom is offline  
post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 09:09 PM
Registered User
 
DaninVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
First Name: Dan
Posts: 14,157
 
Default

"The final way that none of this is the same is the film thickness. Guitars are built to sound good, not just look good. The thicker the finish the poorer the guitar sounds. So I don't have the luxury of building coats to the point I'm so far away from the wood that sanding through is no longer a possibility. Nope, the finish is somewhere around 2 mils to no more than 3 mils thick and I don't want it to go any thicker. "
-David

Well why didn't you say so?
Seriously, now it makes sense. I had no idea that the finish thickness had that kind of tonal effect. Learn something new here everyday.
difalkner likes this.
DaninVan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 09:10 PM
Registered User
 
DaninVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
First Name: Dan
Posts: 14,157
 
Default

Bill; that chess table finish is spectacular...well actually, the whole table is!
Gaffboat and Herb Stoops like this.
DaninVan is offline  
post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 11:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Rick
Posts: 148
 
Cool

Great job David, but we would expect that from a craftsman like you. Thanks for sharing your pictures.

I still smile when I walk past the first guitar I built.
difalkner likes this.
Potowner1 is offline  
post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
Moderation Team
 
difalkner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
First Name: David
Posts: 2,632
 
Default

Have we seen a photo of that first guitar, Rick? I'd love to see it and sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.

David

David

Curly Wood Shop on Etsy
David Falkner - Woodworking YouTube channel and Instagram
Our music at church - current videos Airline Baptist BC Facebook Live
Romans 3:23
difalkner is offline  
post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 04:07 PM
Retired Moderator
 
TwoSkies57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: United States
First Name: Bill
Posts: 6,011
   
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
Thanks, Bill, but I've been using this Meguiars on guitars for over 30 years. Works great!

David
Well dang... I'm preachin' to the choir Do you use a random orbit polisher at anytime during your finish schedule? With the right bonnet and
a lil practice I've managed to cut out alot of time in the process...

"..... limited only by imagination"

"Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"
Skipper the Penguin
TwoSkies57 is offline  
post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 04:09 PM
Retired Moderator
 
TwoSkies57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: United States
First Name: Bill
Posts: 6,011
   
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninVan View Post
Bill; that chess table finish is spectacular...well actually, the whole table is!
Well thank you sir!!! much appreciated.

yes, the table turned out pretty darn nice, if I do say so myself. Built it for a friend and his son, so they can spend some
quality time together just BS'n and playing a lil chess together. Mission accomplished

"..... limited only by imagination"

"Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"
Skipper the Penguin
TwoSkies57 is offline  
post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 04:26 PM
Registered User
 
DaninVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
First Name: Dan
Posts: 14,157
 
Default

Playing on it? Seriously?? Sure hope the Scotch doesn't leave rings!
DaninVan is offline  
post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
Moderation Team
 
difalkner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
First Name: David
Posts: 2,632
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoSkies57 View Post
Well dang... I'm preachin' to the choir Do you use a random orbit polisher at anytime during your finish schedule? With the right bonnet and
a lil practice I've managed to cut out alot of time in the process...
The last time I polished a guitar I used a lambs wool pad in my drill press. I used to have a right angle polisher that I used on dining tables, conference tables, etc. but I don't have that now.

If I do the French polish correctly it won't need sanding or polishing. So far I've had to sand it back a few times. We'll see...

David

David

Curly Wood Shop on Etsy
David Falkner - Woodworking YouTube channel and Instagram
Our music at church - current videos Airline Baptist BC Facebook Live
Romans 3:23
difalkner is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My gallery DominikPierog Wood Scrolling 97 09-10-2018 11:16 AM
Edge Band Sanding Blocks MT Stringer Jigs and Fixtures 6 04-22-2015 04:26 PM
belt sanders sanding frames Peteroo Tools and Woodworking 2 12-22-2014 03:10 PM
Tip for sanding very small pieces Gaffboat Tools and Woodworking 10 11-04-2014 05:26 AM
High Gloss (Piano-like) finish - suggested workflow nordhagen The Finishing Touch 30 07-07-2009 10:34 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome