staircase with winders..how to avoid them? - Router Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Default staircase with winders..how to avoid them?

Hi,
In Sweden,as in many european countries,the staircase with winders is often used,but i don't find them particularly safe..i would like to know if someone knows a way for avoid them and using instead a landing system..or if they must be used in some particular occasion..i'm not a staircase expert and i never build a staircase but i would like to start somewhere..
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 11:25 AM
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The only way you can avoid the winder is if you have enough room for a landing and if there is enough head room clearance , can you post a picture of the well opening and some width dimentions and most important the exact rough rise. I don't know what are the codes allowed in your country.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Stair Guy,
thank you for your answer,i have seen your previous works and i'm astonished..i still don't have the exact measurements,it was just a question for having an idea how to avoid this kind of staircase..what do you think about this kind of stair?i would like to know your professional opinion!
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 02:01 PM
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If you end up with a winder is because you did not had a choice. The winder is the last thing as a stair builder I want to do. Winders are use a lot when there is not enough room for 2 or 3 full straight runs out here in the city Chicago down town winders are comun, it's and every day thing. So I avoid them when I can, they take twice as long and cost more money, the key of the winder is to gave 2 or 3 equal. Runs what ever the case might be. Don't forget to maintain the codes on the winder treads. We call it the 10" walk line. Here is where the equal runs come in to place so you don't loose the sequence on the steps as you are walking up or down. Hard to explain but eazy to visualize. I hope I make sentence
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Hi,absolutely clear,i see this kind of stairs everyday in every home,they are the rule here,but they look so unconfortable and dangerous,i actually fell 2 times from one of this staircase,to my eye they look pretty complex also to make,but as you said it takes twice of the time for building one..you probably know this better than me,so i want ask a question:are these type of staircase the result of bad planning in the house?what you think about this type of stairs?
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Snickare85 View Post
Hi,absolutely clear,i see this kind of stairs everyday in every home,they are the rule here,but they look so unconfortable and dangerous,i actually fell 2 times from one of this staircase,to my eye they look pretty complex also to make,but as you said it takes twice of the time for building one..you probably know this better than me,so i want ask a question:are these type of staircase the result of bad planning in the house?what you think about this type of stairs?
not at all is just depending the amount of space there is to fit a stair case, like i said big citys real state is expensive so that's the reason why they use winders not a whole lot of room from floor to floor, don't get me wrong i have done in the city full stair cases up to 17 risers of corse not for the average customers, people with deep pockets if you know what I mean.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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ahah!i understand what you mean with deep pockets...i see that in usa and canada and england the method for fixing treads and risers with wedges is the normality,here for example this is not used at all..they just mortising tread and risers and fix them with screw and after the screwhole will be plugged..can you tell me the reason why the wedge sistem is used and the pros and cons?
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 03:15 PM
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can you tell me the reason why the wedge sistem is used and the pros and cons?
Mauro

Coming from a country where kite winders are common in older, smaller houses (they are generally avoided in houses built since WWII) and where we use wedges I can say that kite winders are as Ron says, a requirement based on land cost/building budgets in the vast majority of cases combined with the need to produce a stair with a "going" which meets the local regulations. BTW if you think that kite winders are bad, take a look at "spacesaver" staircases with cut-away treads, or go to Amsterdam and experience some of the really steep stairs there - much greater "going" than I've ever come across here in the UK.

The wedges here are because in the UK we mainly build closed riser stairs and the housings are cut using a housing plane or (on a router) a housing cutter which creates a gently sloped side to the housings, rather like a dovetail. Using taper wedges, glue blocks and glue to assemble stairs gives a very ridgid structure which will not creak in service if they are properly assembled - something screwed staircases are prone to doing after years of service. Furthermore wedged staircases can be repaired in situ even when they are installed by fixing through to a masindry wall by simply removing the underdrawings and working from beneath. The design has evolved over about 600 years to where it is now and seems to work quite well

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Last edited by Phil P; 12-29-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Phil,
i perfectly understood what you said,i have seen the dutch stairs that you mentioned before,in some houses i have seen the same here in Sweden..not quite comfortable to walk,it's more like a ladder..i perfectly agree on the wedge system,it looks much better than just screw and plug the treads..
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickare85 View Post
ahah!i understand what you mean with deep pockets...i see that in usa and canada and england the method for fixing treads and risers with wedges is the normality,here for example this is not used at all..they just mortising tread and risers and fix them with screw and after the screwhole will be plugged..can you tell me the reason why the wedge sistem is used and the pros and cons?

when you rout stringers use a 1/2, 5/8 or 7/8 wide dove tail Bit 7 de gree angle,The dovetail bit creates a leading edge in the slot for the treads and risers to touch before they are fully set in the routed channel. Especially with softer skirtboard stock like poplar (for wedge material), the force of the wedge will make the tread and riser crush into that edge of the slot for an extraordinarily tight joint, there is like 1 1/2 degree anfle in a 9'' long wedge
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