Wierd Situation - Router Forums
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Bill
Posts: 3
 
Default Wierd Situation

Hi Everyone,

I had a weird situation recently and hope one of you have an answer to this. I am making kitchen cabinets using the Summerfeld "Tongue and Groove" bits that I have used before without incident. This problem happened while making the stiles and rails of the faceframe.

I was using my router table with a Triton 3 1/4 HP router using the Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove 1/2" bits to groove faceframe stiles made from really hard wood (Santos Mahogany). After about grooving about 10 feet, I noticed that the groove had climbed about 3/8th's of an inch in the stiles I was grooving. As you can imagine, I was not happy.

As I begin my inspection, it discovered that the groove had begun to climb almost immediately after the first 2 boards. The climb was gradual and not the result of any impact or other sudden shift in position of the bit. I had no jams or other surprises during the process. The grooving was very smooth, just in the wrong place.

I began inspecting the machine to see what happened as I expected to find that the router itself had moved or the locking mechanism on the router lift had failed. But no, neither of those were the cause of the problem. I discovered that the Sommerfeld bit had actually climbed upward in the collet.

Just in case you're going to say it was a loose collet, it wasn't. The collet was quite tight when I went to take the bit out. Once I loosened the collet, the bit dropped quite easily to the bottom of the collet.

I am completely stumped. What would cause the bit to inch upward during a grooving operation? Could this have been caused by the angle of the cutting edge of the bit and the hardness of the wood? I've never had this happen before.

I don't want to continue using the Triton router in the table if it is going to do this again. The wood is really expensive and takes quite a bit of work to get it to the grooving stage.

Any ideas or suggestions? I sure would appreciate the help.

Thanks,

Bill
SoCal (Orange County)
chessnut2 likes this.
wildcoach is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 09:30 PM
Forum Contributor
 
DesertRatTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Tom
Posts: 18,057
 
Default

Sommerfeld bits are supposed to be used with a grommet dropped into the collett. If the gromet wasn't there, then the bit might be able to shift. You might want to look up Triton, but I have also had some nice communications with Marc Sommerfeld and you might go on the site and contact him about this problem Betcha a buck he knows what happened and how to fix it. I had a Rockler lift that did this because there was an odd, friction dependent lockdown mechanism.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
DesertRatTom is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 09:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
First Name: Clay
Posts: 575
 
Default

Great first post. Welcome to the forum.
chessnut2 and Roy Drake like this.
fire65 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 10:24 PM
Moderation Team
 
Cherryville Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
First Name: Charles
Posts: 15,905
 
Default

Welcome Bill. Was the collet clean and if the bit was new did you make sure any anti corrosive compound was cleaned off first? Also as Tom mentioned you have to make sure the end of the bit is not bottomed out in the router's arbor. The bit won't tighten properly if it is.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
Cherryville Chuck is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 10:35 PM
Moderation Team
 
BrianS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: Canada
First Name: Brian
Posts: 2,413
 
Send a message via Skype™ to BrianS
Default

Hi Bill. Welcome to our little corner of the 'net.

It sounds to me like maybe the collet was not tight enough. Maybe, as Charles suggested, dirt in the collet, or on the shaft of the bit. Or, maybe a burr of some kind on the shaft. Or, and this is a very common thing, you bottomed the bit in the router and then tightened the collet. The collets are designed to pull the bit down slightly when it is tightened. If it can't pull the bit, then it will not tighten properly. This the reason for the grommet that Tom mentioned... the bit rests on the grommet, and then the collet can tighten properly by pulling the bit down against the grommet. This also ensures that your bits are always the same height in the collet.
old55 likes this.

Brian


Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on
or by imbeciles who really mean it.

(Origin uncertain)
BrianS is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 01:25 AM
Registered User
 
jj777746's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Country: Australia
First Name: James
Posts: 4,727
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcoach View Post
Hi Everyone,

I had a weird situation recently and hope one of you have an answer to this. I am making kitchen cabinets using the Summerfeld "Tongue and Groove" bits that I have used before without incident. This problem happened while making the stiles and rails of the faceframe.

I was using my router table with a Triton 3 1/4 HP router using the Sommerfeld Tongue and Groove 1/2" bits to groove faceframe stiles made from really hard wood (Santos Mahogany). After about grooving about 10 feet, I noticed that the groove had climbed about 3/8th's of an inch in the stiles I was grooving. As you can imagine, I was not happy.

As I begin my inspection, it discovered that the groove had begun to climb almost immediately after the first 2 boards. The climb was gradual and not the result of any impact or other sudden shift in position of the bit. I had no jams or other surprises during the process. The grooving was very smooth, just in the wrong place.

I began inspecting the machine to see what happened as I expected to find that the router itself had moved or the locking mechanism on the router lift had failed. But no, neither of those were the cause of the problem. I discovered that the Sommerfeld bit had actually climbed upward in the collet.

Just in case you're going to say it was a loose collet, it wasn't. The collet was quite tight when I went to take the bit out. Once I loosened the collet, the bit dropped quite easily to the bottom of the collet.

I am completely stumped. What would cause the bit to inch upward during a grooving operation? Could this have been caused by the angle of the cutting edge of the bit and the hardness of the wood? I've never had this happen before.

I don't want to continue using the Triton router in the table if it is going to do this again. The wood is really expensive and takes quite a bit of work to get it to the grooving stage.

Any ideas or suggestions? I sure would appreciate the help.

Thanks,

Bill
SoCal (Orange County)
Hi Bill,you say the bit dropped to the bottom of the collet when you loosened it. I have the same Triton as you & I have never had that happen.Sounds like a faulty collet.Let us know the answer if & when you find it.James jj777746

You can't drive a bridge spike with a tack hammer(so I'm told)
jj777746 is online now  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:44 AM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,584
 
Default

My problem with that happening ended when I started dropping the bit in, then raising it about 1/8" before tightening. Never happened again.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is online now  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:22 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Art
Posts: 1,528
 
Default

Is this the only bit that raises on it's own? If so it could be a faulty bit.
mgmine is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 08:51 AM
Registered User
 
Knothead47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
First Name: John
Posts: 2,583
 
Default

Welcome to the forum!

John T.
Equestrians are stable people.
Knothead47 is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 09:34 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Country: United States
First Name: Ken
Posts: 1,145
 
Default

I hope you find an answer to this as I have had it happen before too, but not with that router or bit (I don't own either).
kklowell is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Hairy Situation williamyoung Pyrography and Carving 21 02-12-2016 06:52 PM
Current situation harrysin Lobby 38 11-29-2015 06:29 PM
This was weird...routing a taper...? Nickp General Routing 6 01-30-2015 10:17 AM
Bad situation. papasombre Lobby 18 10-21-2014 07:25 PM
smelly situation junglejim Lobby 10 07-15-2013 12:05 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome