Looking For Some Advice - Router Forums
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Default Looking For Some Advice

I'm making a base for a small box and I'm having problems with the miter joints. I cut them on my table saw using an Incra V27 miter set to the 22.5 deg notch. I normally don't have trouble cutting 90 deg or 45 deg miters because I have tools to help me set the angles precisely. However, I don't have anything for setting up a 22.5 deg angle. I used a stop block when making the cuts and I verified afterwards that all like pieces are the same length.

For reference purposes, the cherry frame is roughly 4.5" x 8" and the frame pieces themselves are 1" wide. The stock is 0.5" thick.

My question is how would you recommend that these cuts be made? Would you use a table saw or a miter saw?
Do you sometimes get the same imprecise results and then fine tune the angles with a plane or sanding block? Thanks in advance for your help.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 08:13 PM
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I think you need one of those framing gizmos that Tom uses. He swears by it.

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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John, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Do you have any specifics about the framing gizmo?
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 08:26 PM
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Tom should be by shortly -- he's the expert on it. He makes some mighty fine accurate and tight joints.

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckgray View Post
I'm making a base for a small box and I'm having problems with the miter joints. I cut them on my table saw using an Incra V27 miter set to the 22.5 deg notch. I normally don't have trouble cutting 90 deg or 45 deg miters because I have tools to help me set the angles precisely. However, I don't have anything for setting up a 22.5 deg angle. I used a stop block when making the cuts and I verified afterwards that all like pieces are the same length.

For reference purposes, the cherry frame is roughly 4.5" x 8" and the frame pieces themselves are 1" wide. The stock is 0.5" thick.

My question is how would you recommend that these cuts be made? Would you use a table saw or a miter saw?
Do you sometimes get the same imprecise results and then fine tune the angles with a plane or sanding block? Thanks in advance for your help.
@chuckgray ,I'm, fairly sure "Infinity Cutting Tools" have a 22.5 degree bit if that could help,or maybe not.Just sayin'

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckgray View Post
John, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Do you have any specifics about the framing gizmo?
look for the lion miter trimmer/knife threads...
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-wo...der-knife.html
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-wo...r-trimmer.html
http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-t...azy-susan.html
http://www.routerforums.com/starting...ints-tips.html

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your blade has wobble - needs stiffeners or the arbor is sloppy..
and it isn't absolute 90° to the table..
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 09:37 PM
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I like the table saw over the miter saw for precision cuts. No flex in the head like a chop saw or slider. You should use a zero clearance insert, make sure your blade is square to the table, etc.

Frank howarth on YouTube has some videos on how he does the miters on his segmentation pieces, might be worth a look.

A shooting board and plane can help clean up joints some, but if they are too far out of whack your pieces willl get too short.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 09:40 PM
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Hi,
I use what used to be called a Lion miter trimmer. The picture shows how it looks, how it works is that the lever moves a set of extremely sharp cutters back and forth. You pre-cut the frame pieces to about 45 degrees and about 1/16th or so over size. The steel base has a stop for a small arm or mini fence. You slide your workpiece against the fence, then push maybe 1/32nd past the blade, then slide the blade across, trimming off a very tiny amount. This produces an exact 90 or 45 degree angle that is glass smooth. Theoretically you can cut other angles this way, but it is specific to picture frames, or making exact 90 rails and stiles. Mine is a Grizzly and has a couple of arms with a stop block to make sure lengths are exactly the same. This tool was originally made in the 1880s. My wife bought it for me to make frames for her paintings.

What you're makeing is going to require using something like a 22.5 degree router miter bit. You could also do this on a perfectly set up miter gauge, or my other alternative, which is a perfectly tuned Rockler table saw sled, which has a huge scale showing the exact angle in at least hundredths of a degree. But I had a lot of problems using thin kerf blades because the blad deflected just enough so I couldn't get a straight cut and ends wouldn't match up. Using a full kerf blade helped a lot.

Another method is to use the Wixey angle gauge to tilt a table saw blade to an exact angle, with a full kerf blade. See picture. I'd want to use a perfectly set miter gauge to hold those small parts, and a good sacrificial fence.

I would not use a miter saw or chop saw, just not accurate enough to suit me, even my Bosch saw isn't accurate enough for this precision work.

But for your project, the router bit approach would work well. Finally, even with all of that, sometimes a little cover up is required, and for that, Timber Mate filler has worked best for me. Takes stain and finish well and stays put even in the tiny amounts I actually use.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

The Lion Miter Trimmer looks like a fine tool but I can't justify the price for as seldom as I would use it. I like the idea of the 22.5 deg chamfer bit but I'm not sure how to safely use the router with the small pieces.

Stick, you've always got a myriad of good ideas and I appreciate that. I checked the blade angle with my Wixey and it shows to be right on 90 degrees. There doesn't seem to be any play between the blade and arbor. Is there a way I can check for wobble? I'm using a Freud Industrial Glue-line blade, 1/8" kerf.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DesertRatTom View Post
Hi,
I use what used to be called a Lion miter trimmer. The picture shows how it looks, how it works is that the lever moves a set of extremely sharp cutters back and forth. You pre-cut the frame pieces to about 45 degrees and about 1/16th or so over size. The steel base has a stop for a small arm or mini fence. You slide your workpiece against the fence, then push maybe 1/32nd past the blade, then slide the blade across, trimming off a very tiny amount. This produces an exact 90 or 45 degree angle that is glass smooth. Theoretically you can cut other angles this way, but it is specific to picture frames, or making exact 90 rails and stiles. Mine is a Grizzly and has a couple of arms with a stop block to make sure lengths are exactly the same. This tool was originally made in the 1880s. My wife bought it for me to make frames for her paintings.

What you're makeing is going to require using something like a 22.5 degree router miter bit. You could also do this on a perfectly set up miter gauge, or my other alternative, which is a perfectly tuned Rockler table saw sled, which has a huge scale showing the exact angle in at least hundredths of a degree. But I had a lot of problems using thin kerf blades because the blad deflected just enough so I couldn't get a straight cut and ends wouldn't match up. Using a full kerf blade helped a lot.

Another method is to use the Wixey angle gauge to tilt a table saw blade to an exact angle, with a full kerf blade. See picture. I'd want to use a perfectly set miter gauge to hold those small parts, and a good sacrificial fence.

I would not use a miter saw or chop saw, just not accurate enough to suit me, even my Bosch saw isn't accurate enough for this precision work.

But for your project, the router bit approach would work well. Finally, even with all of that, sometimes a little cover up is required, and for that, Timber Mate filler has worked best for me. Takes stain and finish well and stays put even in the tiny amounts I actually use.
Great ideas Tom. I think I'll give a try to tilting the blade on my table saw and see how that works. By using the Wixey, I believe I can set the blade angle on the saw more accurately than setting the angle on the miter gauge. If that fails, I'll go with the Timber Mate filler.
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