New Member, Looking for input on project (Garden Arch) - Page 3 - Router Forums
 17Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: United States
First Name: mary
Posts: 1,225
 
Default

Welcome to the forum, I am sure there are people here that will be able to help you.
marecat3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:59 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 26,124
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABear View Post
Thank you for the ideas. I don't have a band saw. I am cutting the pieces with a miter saw and a fine finish blade so I am getting smooth cuts/joints. I do plan on glue (Titebond) and screws and overlapping. The arch is based on modifications of one I saw in Popular Mechanics.
consider:
at least the birdsmouth joint to help shed water...
Weldbond glue instead of TB... BUT, I wouldn't glue, the wood has/needs to move.. a strong joint will encourage splitting someplace else...
don't do butt joints, do lap joints... way better water shedding - think like a shingle..
slot screw your boards onto the arch rafters ... this will allow for seasonal wood movement... or use clips... think table top to apron mounting...
support the ''roof'' w/ rafters...
instead of 6/4 material use 4/4 for the ''roof''...
pocket screws will fail because of their inability to move w/ the wood's swelling and shrinking equaling open butt joints which become progressive issues...

.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Weldbond Specifications & Instructions.pdf (82.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: pdf Tabletop Fastening.pdf (892.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: pdf Tabletop_Attachment.pdf (375.1 KB, 10 views)
Nickp likes this.

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 09-19-2019 at 02:07 PM.
Stick486 is online now  
post #23 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 02:12 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 26,124
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBCWD View Post
Here is the link to the calculator.

Woodturners Resource Segment Calculator
thanks...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Robert
Posts: 33
 
Default

@Stick486

Thanks again for all the comments. I do have a couple more questions and wanted to add a few details on the project.

I am using pressure treated lumber for the post, I let them dry out over the Summer, they are 4" X 4" oversize so they are 4-1/8" X 4-1/8" actual. They are already set in concrete about 28" deep and measured square corner to corner, 28" is way below my local frost line. Inside width about 44", outside adds 8-1/4" so about 52 1/8" outside. Overall depth about 34"

I have picked up a couple WRC 1 X 6 X 8 boards to go on top of the post, my plan was to use both boards (so 1.5" thickness total) on top of the post and then attach the actual arch to the top boards.

Here are my questions;

You mentioned using 4/4 vs. 6/4 for the top, since I am targeting a 3" thick on each arch piece (double 2 x 6 thick) that is extra cost extra lumber, will you please elaborate on the advantages of why you suggest this approach.

Slot screwing the connecting pieces on the arch is a great idea, thank you.

I can see how weak a butt joint would be, I can see the advantage of using splines. I am debating the Freud Slot Cutter vs. just using my table saw with a jig, I am undecided but here is my next question.

My plan was to off set the 2 x 6's on top of each other as in the attached picture, this should add a lot of strength, would you still recommend the splines. I am guessing yes and if so I will add splines.

OK, here is where I am lost, you recommend a birdsmouth joint. I looked it up and understand the joint and its use. I assume you are recommending this for attaching the arch bottom to the frame, if other than that, I need you to provide me some more details.

Thank you once again.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RF002Capture.JPG
Views:	22
Size:	61.2 KB
ID:	374425  

ABear is offline  
post #25 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 02:39 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 26,124
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABear View Post
@Stick486

1... I am using pressure treated lumber for the post. They are already set in concrete

2... I have picked up a couple WRC 1 X 6 X 8 boards to go on top of the post, my plan was to use both boards (so 1.5" thickness total) on top of the post and then attach the actual arch to the top boards.

3... You mentioned using 4/4 vs. 6/4 for the top, since I am targeting a 3" thick on each arch piece (double 2 x 6 thick) that is extra cost extra lumber, will you please elaborate on the advantages of why you suggest this approach.

4... I can see how weak a butt joint would be, I can see the advantage of using splines. I am debating the Freud Slot Cutter vs. just using my table saw with a jig, I am undecided but here is my next question.

NOTE:
any glue up on WRC needs to be treated as an oily wood...
Weldbond can be had from ACE hardware....

6... My plan was to off set the 2 x 6's on top of each other as in the attached picture, this should add a lot of strength, would you still recommend the splines. I am guessing yes and if so I will add splines.

5.. .OK, here is where I am lost, you recommend a birdsmouth joint. I looked it up and understand the joint and its use. I assume you are recommending this for attaching the arch bottom to the frame, if other than that, I need you to provide me some more details.

Thank you once again.
1... FWIW, I would have used WRC posts and the next time you set a post, set it in pea gravel. CC in contact w/ wood promotes rot because it keeps the wood wet... wood+water=rot....
2... could you clarify...
3... a 2by is actually 6/4 thick.. 4/4 is a 1'' thick... a 1x is 3/4'' thick...
clapboard your roof like shingles to promote water run off... kant (if need be) the face of the top edge of the board that is under the next board going up hill for a better fit... (run the board through your TS on it's edge to get the angle you need)... cut flats to fit on top of your arch to fit the clapboards... a butted joint is going to open, which leads to failure, no matter what you do... on second thought, a 2x may give you more wiggle room and better/cleaner esthetics...
4... the TS is your best bet.. no jig required... stand your board on it's edge to cut the slot...
5... you are building a barrel vault... splines for butt joints, but butt joints, for me, on the roof boards would be pretty far down the method list... DO spline your arch segment's butt joints...
6... the birdsmouth is an alternate butt joint for your roof boards... study the picture I posted, the lip is on the down slope and acts as a water shed...

can you post a link to your plan???
Attached Images
 
Attached Files
File Type: pdf PRESSURE TREAT.pdf (83.2 KB, 10 views)
File Type: pdf Gluing Oily Tropical Hardwoods II.pdf (49.6 KB, 10 views)

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 09-20-2019 at 02:44 PM.
Stick486 is online now  
post #26 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Robert
Posts: 33
 
Default

Thank you Stick, the Router Forums will not allow me to hotlink a URL as a new Member, I am sure it is to keep the spam down. I have a screen grab of the website that shows the plan, my plan is just a modification of this plan to make it larger and the cross ties on the top I plan on using 2 x 2 WRC stock, also 2 x 2 WRC stock on the side laths. I have attached a picture which shows a couple boards between the upright posts and the arbor. These are the boards mentioned in the #2 item that you asked for clarification.

I am going to review your latest comments and see if I have questions, thank you again for taking time to help!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RFPM001Capture.JPG
Views:	25
Size:	11.7 KB
ID:	374445  

Click image for larger version

Name:	RFPM002Capture.JPG
Views:	28
Size:	152.2 KB
ID:	374447  

ABear is offline  
post #27 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 08:33 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 26,124
 
Default

hurry and get your 10 posts

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 09-20-2019 at 08:40 PM.
Stick486 is online now  
post #28 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Robert
Posts: 33
 
Default

Well, this should put me over the limit, post 10.
ABear is offline  
post #29 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Robert
Posts: 33
 
ABear is offline  
post #30 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Robert
Posts: 33
 
ABear is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome