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Bloody Brass template guides

9K views 43 replies 14 participants last post by  harrysin 
#1 ·
I did some work on the clock today and routed out a square for the mechanism to sit in. Some time ago I had a project that required a shallow cut out for a clock mechanism so I made a quick template from scrap chipboard and used a Brass 16mm Porter Cable type template guide with a 10mm cutter, so today, rather than make a new template for a sizeable 40mm guide, I took the easy way out and used the afore mentioned template. All went as expected 'till the 4th cut when suddenly there was a lot of banging and "things" flew across the shed. Being used to a 40mm guide where the chuck fits through the guide, I didn't realise that the chuck had reached the guide, and being Brass it made little noise as it unscrewed the ring nut and the guide and nut went flying. Now, if the guide had been steel, as soon as the chuck touched it there would have been a loud noise accompanied by lots of sparks and the router would have been immediately released, allowing the cutter to enter the safety of the housing.
When I found the guide, it was still spinning like a child's spinning top. So much for the often touted Brass guides.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Hi Harry

Try using a smaller bit or bigger BRASS guide :dance3: the bit should not hit/rub the inside of the Bloody guide :lol:



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#4 ·
Hi Harry
Try using a smaller bit or bigger BRASS guide :dance3: the bit should not hit/rub the inside of the Bloody guide :lol:========
It was the chuck that was touching the guide. I've done that.
 
#5 ·
Can't blame this one on the guides, it is pure "Operator head space" meaning somebody was not paying attention to their set up. Like a pilot following his check list we always test for clearance before plugging in and applying power to the router. We do this the same way every time we use the router. Why? Because faimilarity breeds accidents. I would not want to hit a steel guide bushing either. Let me be the first to say I am very happy you were not injured Harry.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Guys and gals, tools and equipment that we use should be chosen so as to minimise the possibility of an accident, that's why I normally make templates for use with large guides allowing the chuck to pass through the guide, even on the rare occasions where it's been necessary to use a small guide, it's normally steel and as I mentioned in the first post, if the chuck does happen to touch the steel guide there is noise and sparks giving fair warning. May I suggest that ANYONE who claims this has never happened, either hasn't done a great deal of routing or perhaps has a poor memory! Porter Cable type Brass guides...........YUK...............Just my humble opinion!

This is an edit.........I forgot to mention that this very morning (our time) I was speaking to a fellow member on Skype and he told me that HE has had occasions where Brass guides have become loose, and that's without touching the rotating chuck!
 
#10 · (Edited)
Hi Harry

Maybe you need the item below :)

Just a note,, I hate using the YUK steel guides.. :( maybe you have some OLD brass guides..:)

" member on Skype " Glen has big fingers and the nut needs to be screwed down tight ,it's worth the time to double check it out b/4 you hit the power switch :) if it's tight it will not come free until you want to remove it.. :) I have had to use a channel lock pliers sometimes to get it free :) they hold that well :)

Router Bushing Spring Washer
Router Accessories

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#8 ·
Harry,

I feel your pain, but I still prefer brass guide bushings over steel. If you weren't so far away I would give you my "only slightly used" set of steel guide bushings. You most likely plunged the router collet into the bushing nut, and you would likely have had the same result no matter which type of bushing you were using, although a steel bushing would have produced a more "visible" result.

To keep my router bushings from loosening I've started using some wave washer type lock washers that I bought from Peachtree Wooodworking in Atlanta, GA "www.ptree.com" . Since I started using these behind the nuts I haven't had any more loose guide bushing nut problems, although I can't remember ever plunging a collet into them.

Charley
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Tools generally work. Craftsmen occasionally mess up. Having read lots of threads about template guides, 2 things have become obvious to me. Use a large template guide and you can see where you are routing, the router is better supported because the template is larger and there is more clearance for both the bit and the waste. Secondly, use a large 30mm plus guide and make all your templates to suit, and the collet will pass through the guide and no sparks and noise. I have always used a small template guide as my first one was about 11mm dia, and I made most of my templates to suit over the years. I now draw all my templates using CAD. So much quicker and more accurate. Even though I don't cut them by CAM, (2 poor experiences of the cutter going to home across the template) I may soon cut them on the Laser we have at school. Enclosed is an attachment drawn in 2D design for some feather-boards to be cut next Tuesday in polypropylene.
 

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#14 ·
In the computer world one refers to the "short circuit between the keyboard and the floor."

I'm still so scared of my routers, you've now traumatized me for the rest of the month ;-) I'll have nightmares for weeks now. Thanks Harry!

Thank heavens I use brass. I'd hate to have all of those sparks and bits of burning metal flying all over the place, especially in my sawdust clogged workshop. One spark and the router is the least of my worries.

Allthunbs
 
#15 ·
Mike, am I right in assuming that "feed direction with the arrows" is the direction of feeding the wood, if so I cannot agree with you on this occasion. The wood should slide easily past the fingers when feeding, but lock it if attempting to go backwards as in kick-back.
 
#17 ·
it seems to me this shot is for layout purposes and if separated would be more easily understood. it threw me when i first looked at it, but i chalked up my misunderstanding to inexperience.
 
#18 ·
I'm still confused, may be just me or possibly the fact that it's close to bed time or even possibly my nightly Grant's "medicine" that's almost finished!
 
#21 ·
Same thing happened to me twice in 20 something yrs. of routing. Go figure, I always thought they were aluminum, (too cheap to spend on the brass).

After the 1st incident I began using pliers to tighten the ring down, when it happened the 2nd time, (last winter) I felt sure it couldn't be from not tight enough, which made me wonder again about the 1st time.

Sometimes I have close tolerance, (bit to guide ID) sometimes not. I'm thinking maybe there might have been debris in the guide threads or maybe under the guide, or between the guide and ring, I don't know.

All I know is it's scary as hell when it happens and in my case neither incident wrecked the bits, and I still use both guides, I took some wood dowel, forced it through the guide and tapped the OD to round it back out.
 
#23 ·
Mike, going off topic for a moment, yesterday we watched "open house" on TV, a two bedroom terrace house in Altrincham sold for £238,000.500, here for that money you'd get a modern 4 bedroom ,2 bathroom, family room, games/theatre room, laundry, double garage with auto doors, a covered patio, well set out gardens etc, etc on at least a 1/6 th. acre freehold block.
 
#24 ·
Three piece guides? You mean a threaded guide bushing with a locking ring and an additional collar? Or do you mean the Makita type with two screws and a guide busing? All of these work fine as long as the operator checks for proper clearance before applying power. It is just that simple. I have had steel PC style bushings loosen up under power but never the brass.
 
#26 ·
My brass PC guides work loose, also. But, so do the steel ones. I fixed them by applying Teflon plumber's tape to the threads.

Gene
 
#27 ·
You still appear to be talking about three piece guides, an adaptor, a threaded guide and a round nut. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's not the material that I'm against, just the out of date three piece ones compared to the one piece guides. Mike's attempt at humour surprises me considering the safety issues underlying this thread.
 
#33 ·
Harry,

I for one am glad to know that you're ok and didn't get injured. I have recently, (this past winter), encountered a similar problem once. I have an use brass guides/bushings. I've had one loosen on me. Turned out, it was simply too cold in my shop for them to "hold tight".

Bobj, did point me in a direction of getting a pair of spring rings that slip over the threads, tighten the nut and they don't come loose. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to post of them. Still trying to get info from the pc moved over to the new one.
 
#34 ·
Ken, the evidence is slowly mounting about the POTENTIAL danger of three piece guides compared to the Makita type one piece guides which are not affected whether in the centre of Australia or in the coldest winter that Canada has ever experienced!
 
#36 ·
Hi Harry

I guess that's why most good pipe fitting are made of BRASS and not steel, brass will seal so much better than steel plated ones..:) without the need of a gaskets or sealing compound to fill the gap in the threads the norm :)

Brass ,,,It will give just a little bit unlike steel ones without the need of high torque on the ring nut..


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#37 ·
Bob, guys are coming in stating that they have had BRASS PC style guides come loose. By the way, I'm part way through making an illuminated Acrylic router base but have suddenly realised that when used with a template guide it will block most of the light. With this in mind, before going any further, I'll see if it's possible to make a transparent 40mm guide.
 
#38 ·
Hi Harry

I have been thinking about the illuminated Acrylic router base ,it would be best if it was made it out of 1/4" thick stock I think,,,like a sandwich thing some slots for the wires and lights and a pocket hole for the battery box then with some screws holding the two parts together with a clear 40mm guide pocket to hold it..then just some more strips to hold your 12mm rod in place on the top side of the base plate..all in clear stock..and maybe a knob or two on the ends..for control of the base plate :)


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