How to make wooden window frames? - Router Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Smile How to make wooden window frames?

Hi,
I bought myself this plunge router:

Festool OF1400 EBQ

for making some wooden boxes using the Leigh dovetail jig.

However, I want to experiment with making windows of this type:

XXSorry I wanted to post a link here, but I'm not allowed to do soXX

These are European style windows with 3 layers of glass. What router bits are needed for commencing such a project? I have been doing some research and found that special rail/stile/sash bits are offered but I don't think they are the answer to my needs. Most people say I need a heavy duty table router with some extremely expensive disc cutters. But isn't it possible to do with conventional plunge router bits? Any links, advise on books etc on this topic would be appreciated. Or ... is it possible at the end of the day? Do I need to fabricate many custom made jigs?

Thanks in advance,

Lucas
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemaniac View Post
Hi,
I bought myself this plunge router:

Festool OF1400 EBQ

for making some wooden boxes using the Leigh dovetail jig.

However, I want to experiment with making windows of this type:

XXSorry I wanted to post a link here, but I'm not allowed to do soXX

These are European style windows with 3 layers of glass. What router bits are needed for commencing such a project? I have been doing some research and found that special rail/stile/sash bits are offered but I don't think they are the answer to my needs. Most people say I need a heavy duty table router with some extremely expensive disc cutters. But isn't it possible to do with conventional plunge router bits? Any links, advise on books etc on this topic would be appreciated. Or ... is it possible at the end of the day? Do I need to fabricate many custom made jigs?

Thanks in advance,

Lucas
Hi Lucas - Welcome to the forum
Yeah, need to have 10 posts to post a link... kinda discourages SPAMMERs, seems to work. I think you can post pictures though which would be helpful.
In general, I think you would need a table to do an accurate job on window frames though. Seems like you should be able to do most it with standard bits although make take extra passes. Not sure just how triple panes are done

John Schaben

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 09:15 PM
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G'day Lucas

Welcome to the forum

James
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I don't profess to know everything, and I may learn something new.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
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Hi again,

I'm thinking about something like this (two different windows):




By the way thanks for the hint about posting pictures and not links :-)

Lucas
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 09:55 AM
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I would also be interested in plans for windows if anyone has any advice on how to obtain them. Thanks and regards, Prem
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:27 PM
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Well, looking at the profiles of the parts of the two window sample photos should give you a pretty good idea of what routing work will need to be done. They even give you some dimensions to work with. Then all you will need to know is how to form the corners and how big you will need to make the windows. It will likely be a good idea to make a small prototype of one window to make certain that it can be done. Then get going and produce some windows.

Charley

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 07:03 PM
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I think Charles and John said it can be down well on a router table with basic bits. Looks like the corner joints are just squared with basic joints...

But if Tiny from Finland were to jump in on this thread, that is his professional specialty. He might be able to provide some details beyond the basics that we see from those photos, such as what tooling might be needed to provide for seals, the corner joints and such.

Once you worked out the tooling for one, others would be just different in pane dimensions.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prem View Post
I would also be interested in plans for windows if anyone has any advice on how to obtain them. Thanks and regards, Prem
Hi Prem and welcome!

How often have I seen that written about stairs, windows and doors? As a working joiner I'd have to say that such things don't exist - or if they do they are of extremely limited use because every door, window or staircase is different, made for it's own unique location. To build stuiff like this you need to select a style of window, then familiarise yourself with the construction techniques and cross sections of the timbers you're going to use. Most modern manufactured windows are assembled using a form of multiple finger joints (because they are made using spindle moulders with complex tooling or even in CNC window centres, a development of the spindle moulder) so you will need to find an alternative such as conventional mortise and tenon or loose tenon, such as the Domino, or even multiple dowels. Once you have the cross sections of the various timbers a full-size cross sections (vertical and horizontal) are drawn on a piece of sheet material (3mm MDF, 1/8in plywood, hardboard, etc) to form what we refer to as a "rod" (story pole in US parlance?) and all dimensions are then stepped directly off that onto the timbers. Not much help to a beginner, I know, but that is the process

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemaniac View Post
I'm thinking about something like this (two different windows):


Hi Lucas

Those profiles could be worked with a fairly basic set of cutters, BUT, the rebate sections in windows are very often far too large to take easily with a router. One solution I've used in the past is to buy-in standard profiles from timber merchants (many European firms sell these) for sill, head, stiles, casement and glazing beads which then leaves only the joints and any routing for weather stripping to be undertaken. Large section rebated components can be built-up from smaller profile pieces by gluing together, although any exterior work will require a fully weatherproof glue such as a urea formaldehyde glue and all such joints will need to be properly clamped to achieve the required weatherproof qualities.

Typical cutters required for a side-hung casement window include:

Sash bar and sash scribe to make the male and female sections of the profiles. These can also be used to manufacture glazing retaining beads

Water channel to make drip grooves, etc

Weather seals come in a huge variety of sizes and shapes and the cutter must match the style of weather seal you choose

If your chosen style of window requires capillary draining then these capillary groove cutters are useful

Note that casments are often 35 to 55mm thick (front to back) when using double/triple sealed glazing units and that the main window frame is therefore going to be something like 55 to 85mm thick x 40mm or more deep, much more if the style requires a built-in wooden sill

Regards

Phil

Last edited by Phil P; 10-08-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 07:40 PM
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In a word, Prem, simplify. That cross section you've posted is fine for a big factory run but ridiculously complicated for a small custom project. For starters, you likely don't have access to the metal/vinyl extrusions. Those are usually proprietary and not available to outsiders.
The triple pane sealed unit is just a fat sealed unit; nothing out of the ordinary other than its weight. Keep that in mind, they're going to be heavy.
Pick a generic weather seal from what's available to you and go with their construction recommendations.
Something like these:
Kerf Mount Seals | Weather Seals | Hung Windows | Amesbury
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