Making Cabinet Doors advice needed - Router Forums
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Default Making Cabinet Doors advice needed

Iím about to make two doors out of Red Oak and I just bought a Ogee Matched Rail &Stile Bit Set from MLCS and Iím a little worried about it. Iíve been having a lot of trouble lately with simple dado and rabbit cuts on my router table and I want this to work on the first try.

I Ďm using ĺĒ x 3 ĹĒ Red Oak and the instructions look pretty straight forward
but so did all the other routing cuts Iím made lately. I was just wondering if there was anything I need to be aware of.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...lstile0911.pdf

Also Iím not sure how to plan for the hinges and was wondering how to go about it. Do I rabbit around the door after itís assembled and what kind of clearances should I have?
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 01:05 PM
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Johnny; sorry, I'm no expert on router tables but I did note that you sound like you're going to go for the hole-in-one, so to speak, by doing the hardwood right off the bat. Why not get the feel for it by doing a few trials on scrap 3/4" softwood first? If you botch a cut on a piece of scrap 1x4 Spruce no big deal.
At the very least you'll feel a lot more confident when you do the real thing.
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 01:16 PM
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Johnny
Have you watch marc sommerfeld utube vedios on making raised panels no matter who's bits you are using the princliably is the same ,mark the good side and keep it down.
As we speak I am waiting on my glued upped panels to dry so I can finish assembling them

Are you making flat panels or raised?

Last edited by Semipro; 08-16-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Dan, That’s a good I idea. I’ll probably do that today just to get an Idea of how to set the proper height.

Thanks John, I have not seen any videos yet, but that is also a good idea. I just watch a Marc Sommerfeld video on 'Cabinetmaking Made Easy', but I didn’t see anything on doors.


UPDATE:
Wow Marc Sommerfeld sure has a lot of videos and he wastes so much room in the title for his name that I have to open every one to see the what it is. This may take a while because so far I don't see anything close to what I'm doing. LOL.

Last edited by JohnnyB60; 08-16-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 02:22 PM
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Start off by practicing with scrap... not with your hardwood.

Start out with the stile bit. The stile bit has the profile with the face of the stock (what is visual) down towards the table. The bit height measurement for that (how I measure it) is the top of the table to the bottom inside edge of the groove. put your stock against it and make sure you are going to get a good face profile (the bottom third), but have enough meat on the top for the back profile. A Rail and Stile "profile" is a compound profile that can be divided into thirds: The face profile, the spline joint's profile and the back profile. You might have to adjust this to compensate...

Practice that. You should get comfortable with creating that profile. The goal is to get consistent pressure on your stock, both down to the table and back against your fence, while you are feeding your stock.

When you get comfortable with that profile, on to the rails. The rail profile is a mirror image of the stile profile, so they fit together. It is also with the face of the rail towards the table. The bit height is set from the top of the table to the inside bottom edge of the groove. The ifrist time stting this up, you can take one of you later practice stile profiles and set it against the rail bit to set that. Cut a practice piece on scrap. Fir that piece into that stile and make sure the faces meet up. Adjust if necessary.

Rail profiles are cut into the end grain. I use a sacrificial block cut at 90 degrees (actually I use a Jig as a reusuable sacrificial block). I put the block against the fence, with the rail stock stock against the block and fence, so it is perpendicular to the fence. Some will tell you "perpendicular" doesn't matter... but I get better quality this way and easier to support while cutting. The reason for using a block is that it supports the endgrain while cutting so you don't get breakout at the end of the cut.

When you get comfortable with doing those two profiles using scrap, and while practicing, create a piece of scrap with both profiles with the bit heights set to where it needs to be. Use that as a bit height gauge to reset your R&S bits to and mark that gauge as "SAVE". That way you can reset those 2 bits back to those height by using it to put the stile bit into the cut stile profile and the rail bit into the cut rail profile of that gauge.

(EDIT-- That bit height measurement is also a balance with the Panel's profile, so balance and adjust that between all 3 profiles. Because you also want to make sure that the panel's profile has a clean edge face and back... and. depending on the panel style and/or profile, whether all 3 pieces have their faces in the same plane.)

Does that help? I hope I explained that in a way that doesn't make that sound more difficult than it actually is. It isn't difficult, as long as you understand what you are trying to do and how it works "together."

With Oak, you're going to leave about 1/16" to 1/8" expansion room all the way around between panel and the R&S. Red Oak expands and contacts a bit more than other woods. The panel floats inside the other pieces. You use packing in the grooves to let the panel expand and contract inside that door frame. Make sure you plan for that, otherwise it will pop those R&S joints apart. You can do it without packing, but then the door "rattles" in use. Not really a bad sound, really a somewhat familiar sound to old homes... I make that joint fit snug, but not "tight." Stain the panel before you assemble. That way during contraction phase of the panel, you don't get an exposed light area in that joint.

"Don't worry, I saw this work in a cartoon once."
"Usually learning skills and tooling involves a progression of logical steps."

Last edited by MAFoElffen; 08-16-2013 at 03:07 PM.
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 02:33 PM
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Johnny
This video's will give a good idea how it is done
Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Arched Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube

http://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=...autoplay%253D1

Last edited by Semipro; 08-16-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAFoElffen View Post
Start off by practicing with scrap... not with your hardwood.

Start out with the stile bit. The stile bit has the profile with the face of the stock (what is visual) down towards the table. The bit height measurement for that (how I measure it) is the top of the table to the bottom inside edge of the groove. put your stock against it and make sure you are going to get a good face profile (the bottom third), but have enough meat on the top for the back profile. You might have to adjust this to compensate...

Practice that. You should get comfortable with creating that profile. The goal is to get consistent pressure on your stock, both down to the table and back against your fence, while you are feeding your stock.

When you get comfortable with that profile, on to the rails. The rail profile is a mirror image of the stile profile, so they fit together. It is also withe the face of the rail towards the table. The bit height is set from the top of the table to the inside bottom edge of the groove. The ifrist time stting this up, you can take one of you later practice stile profiles and set it against the rail bit to set that. Cut a practice piece on scrap. Fir that piece into that stile and make sure the faces meet up. Adjust if necessary.

(EDIT-- That bit height measurement is also a balance with the Panel's profile, so balance and adjust that between all 3 profiles. Because you also want to make sure that the panel's profile has a clean edge face and back...)

Rail profile are cut into the end grain. I use a sacrificial block cut at 90 degrees (actually I use a Jig as a reusuable sacrificial block). I put the block against the fence, with the rail stock stock against the block and fence, so it is perpendicular to the fence. Some will tell you "perpendicular" doesn't matter... but I get better quality this way and easier to support while cutting. The reason for using a block i that it supports the endgrain while cutting so you don't get breakout at the end of the cut.

When you get comfortable with doing those two profiles using scrap, and while practicing, create a piece of scrap with both profiles with the bit heights set to where it needs to be. Use that as a bit height gauge to reset your R&S bits to and mark that gauge as "SAVE". That way you can reset those 2 bits back to those height by using it to put the stile bit into the cut stile profile and the rail bit into the cut rail profile of that gauge.

Does that help?
Thank you Mike, that helps a lot. I had not opened up the package yet, and I had no idea the the face is down. I'm a little worried about tearing out the corners when making that end grain cut, but the practice run should work that out.
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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks John, I like that one. Iím undecided if Iím going to do the raised panel although I did buy the raised panel bit. I bought the vertical type and I donít think I can do the arched panel with it, but the rest of the video is a big help.
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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I just watched that Sommerfeld's Tools video and I realized that I may have a problem because he mentioned setting the router speed for the pattern bit. I donít know how to do that and Iím going to have to do some research on that.
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB60 View Post
I just watched that Sommerfeld's Tools video and I realized that I may have a problem because he mentioned setting the router speed for the pattern bit. I don’t know how to do that and I’m going to have to do some research on that.
Yes... Speed very important with large diameter bits. If your router is not a variable speed type, you could use a variable speed switch, which are inexpensive. That's what I use on my large router table, that I use for cabinet work.

(added more tips as edits to my last post)

BJ and I've got tips cutting panel profiles (different methods, but does the same things by those methods). Big thing that we both find on the panel profiles is that you want to control and step into your depth of cut, while keeping the bit height static. Jumping in with 1-1/4" or so depth of cut all at once is never a good idea...

Vertical Panel bits are usually thought of as being for a "horizontal" router table... Do you have one? And no, you are right in that "that" would be the wrong bit to try to do arched raised panels. (BJ has those bits, along with 2 horizontal tables, and would be the one to talk about those.)

Sidenote on arched panels... (I just finished saying this elsewhere) "Usually learning skills and tooling involves a progression in logical steps." (I'm going to put this in my signature line...) Wouldn't attacking a project of arch panels without first doing shakers, then raised panels... be like starting out learning how to fight by fighting the champ in your first Bout? I'm no Doctor, but... just saying.

"Don't worry, I saw this work in a cartoon once."
"Usually learning skills and tooling involves a progression of logical steps."

Last edited by MAFoElffen; 08-16-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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