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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Default decisions, decisions......booooosch! :)

I may have asked a similar question at some point in the past. I apologize if I have, I just don't recall.

I am planning a purchase of two routers, one for hand use, and one in a table.

Between two routers, I'm torn which to use in a table. I know which I want for hand held use. I'm choosing a Bosch MRF23EVS for a handheld, all purpose use router because it has plenty of power, and also other features such as ergonomic grips, trigger on/off switch in the grips, and work lights, all of which are things I really want in a router, but these things in combination are hard to find in the same router. For a table, another one just like it would work, but to save just a bit of money since the same features aren't needed, the Bosch 1617EVS seems like it would be all I'd need in a table.

Where I get torn is on the power rating. The MRF23EVS is rated at 2.3 hp, and the 1617EVS is rated 2.25 hp. Not much different, but the amp ratings are. One is 15 amp while the other is 12 amp. Seems the one with the higher rating would be noticeably stronger, and therefore should be the one used in the table, and that part is killing me since it's the one I will be using hand held just for its comfort and conveniences. The table router will have to handle ANY and ALL table needs, from small parts edge shaping, and longer board jointing, to panel raising and long, deep dadoes and grooves. In my mind, it will need to do things that don't require much power, to things that may bog the motor sometimes (hopefully not). Anything a table router is needed for, this one must handle it all since it will be the only table router in the shop. Seems that the stronger one should be there, but if the slightly weaker one will do it and save me a few bucks, I'd rather do that. What would you do?

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane Bledsoe View Post
I may have asked a similar question at some point in the past. I apologize if I have, I just don't recall.

I am planning a purchase of two routers, one for hand use, and one in a table.

Between two routers, I'm torn which to use in a table. I know which I want for hand held use. I'm choosing a Bosch MRF23EVS for a handheld, all purpose use router because it has plenty of power, and also other features such as ergonomic grips, trigger on/off switch in the grips, and work lights, all of which are things I really want in a router, but these things in combination are hard to find in the same router. For a table, another one just like it would work, but to save just a bit of money since the same features aren't needed, the Bosch 1617EVS seems like it would be all I'd need in a table.

Where I get torn is on the power rating. The MRF23EVS is rated at 2.3 hp, and the 1617EVS is rated 2.25 hp. Not much different, but the amp ratings are. One is 15 amp while the other is 12 amp. Seems the one with the higher rating would be noticeably stronger, and therefore should be the one used in the table, and that part is killing me since it's the one I will be using hand held just for its comfort and conveniences. The table router will have to handle ANY and ALL table needs, from small parts edge shaping, and longer board jointing, to panel raising and long, deep dadoes and grooves. In my mind, it will need to do things that don't require much power, to things that may bog the motor sometimes (hopefully not). Anything a table router is needed for, this one must handle it all since it will be the only table router in the shop. Seems that the stronger one should be there, but if the slightly weaker one will do it and same me some bucks, I'd rather do that. What would you do?
thought you did too...

the 1617 is q real work horse ... you won't regret getting it...

1. AMPS — We have all seen advertising literature with phrases like "delivers 8.0 full amps of power!" This is not correct terminology.
A universal motor is not a very efficient machine. In some cases up to 50% of the electrical energy a tool is using is not converted into useful torque, but rather is lost as generated heat. The amp rating indicates the electrical current load the tool is capable of carrying for a theoretically indefinite amount of time without degrading the motor insulation system or other electrical components. In a UL rated product, a motor insulation system is designed to withstand, typically, 105 degrees C (Celsius) temperature for approximately 20,000 hours.
After that, the insulation system will break down causing motor failure. Since the average tool is designed for life capability in the 100's of hours, a well designed power tool motor should provide trouble free function throughout the life. This is providing the motor loading is within the design range of the insulation system.
The motor is designed for the desired rating, and then verified through testing under laboratory conditions that the motor will remain at or below 105 degrees C when loaded to this design nameplate amp rating.
There are many factors that effect a tool amp rating.
The motor should be designed with enough active materials (i.e. laminations, windings etc.) to insure over-temperature conditions will not exist when the tool is used as intended. Motor rpm's will also affect the amp. rating. A faster motor means more air will be moved through the tool to help draw the generated heat out of and away from the tool. The quality of the fan/ventilation system design also will affect the motor cooling.
The amp rating gives the user a feel for how effective the motor design and cooling systems are. The amp rating should not be construed to indicate how "powerful" a motor is. The amp load is an effect of how hard a motor is being worked, not a contributing factor to the motor power.

2. Horsepower
— Motor horsepower ratings for hand held power tools usually indicate the maximum power a particular motor design is capable of generating. This does not mean that a 2 HP circular saw could be loaded to 2 HP all day long and continue to perform without failure. What this means is that when loaded under laboratory conditions for a short time (prior to the motor heating up), this motor can generate enough torque at a high enough RPM to equal 2 HP (see equation #I).
If a motor were to continue to be operated at this peak HP load, it would shortly burn out due to the significantly higher currents than designed for moving though the system. The typical universal motor will operate during normal operation at 40-70% of the peak horsepower value.

A user can compare horsepower ratings to determine which tool may have a stronger motor but keep in mind, the tool gearing will also have an effect on the actual "Reserve Power" available.

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 01-10-2015 at 07:06 PM.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 07:14 PM
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I have the 3 1/4hp Triton in a table. It has worked good for me. I also have a pair of 1617's I use for under the table in a fixed base and for everyday handheld operations in the plunge base.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I've had some electrical training, so I comprehend ohm's law and watt's law and all that, and I always thought that the hp ratings in motors were strictly a function of volts, amps, watts, and horse power, (understanding some efficiency losses also), which were all figured per the electrical formulas used to calculate each. Sounds like we're also talking about "perceived" horse power as well, based on other factors besides just the electrical numbers. Did I understand that right?
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane Bledsoe View Post
Ok, I've had some electrical training, so I comprehend ohm's law and watt's law and all that, and I always thought that the hp ratings in motors were strictly a function of volts, amps, watts, and horse power, (understanding some efficiency losses also), which were all figured per the electrical formulas used to calculate each. Sounds like we're also talking about "perceived" horse power as well, based on other factors besides just the electrical numbers. Did I understand that right?
the amps part of the reply is what matters more in this case...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the replies.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 09:55 PM
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Just get a PC7518 and quit worrying about it. It's a beast. Mine is used every day for the past 12 years. It only complains when I might miss a day.

Gene Howe
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Please edit your profile with a name and location so we can better assist you and make for a friendlier forum.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2015, 11:07 PM
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In the past it seemed like all the manufacturers were lying more or less equally about horsepower but Bosch seems to be a little more honest about this model so as he suggested go with amp draw instead. 15 amps is about 1800 watts and 746 watts equal 1 hp. So that figure (2.3) would be close. But as Stick pointed out there is an efficiency problem too. At 60% efficiency the actual output hp would be around 1 1/2.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 09:27 AM
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Hi Duane,

When you are talking about high end routers, it really comes down to personal choice and what other features you like/need. I started with a Dewalt DW625 and was my table router and still is as a backup. It was a pain to adjust height in the table but will cut through anything and I have had it 20 years now. My current setup is a Triton TRA001. It is a powerful router that allows for height adjustment from above the table. It also has a nice dust collection port design. These features were primary considerations for me with power as third on the list. I looked at the PC 7518 as it is the model that a lot of the pro shops use but did not have the other features I wanted. I have a PC 690 for light hand held use. My son has the Bosch 1617 combo that he uses for hand held and table. After using his router, I would have no concerns about that router either. It is a nice setup and will be my next router purchase.

Basically, a tool is an object that enables you take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself - Dave Barry
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 09:37 AM
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I used a 1617 in my table for several years and liked it. Had a lift, but it was always slipping, so I finally retired it and put a Triton TRA 001 in there. It is very powerful, has above table adjustment and 3.25 hp. Very happy with it, and it is also pretty quiet and has better than average dust seals. It is just too heavy for me to use freehand. So the Bosch is my go to machine for freehand use. The Bosch is perfectly capable of doing everything I ran through it on the table, but I wish I'd purchased the Triton first since I do as much routing as I can on the table--its safer and more precise. I have compared other brands and models, but didn't like the height adjusting mechanisms because they seemed a bit flimsy--just my perception of course, but I'm really happy with the setup I've got now. Triton and Bosch, hard to beat.
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