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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Arrow Farm Table Tennon

I am building a farm style table and I want to go with mortise tennon for the bread board ends rather then pocket holes. Twas wondering if anyone here has done that with the router? It will be over a 47" length. I want to do tennons after I put the top together rather than individual pcs. Can you use an edge guide? Or would it make more sense to make a jig that slides over the end and clamped? I have seen those jigs, but thinking an edge guide would do the same thing??

Mortise would probably be easier with a mortise machine but I'm sure a router would work. Just never done the MT joint..
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 12:04 PM
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welcome to the forums oh nameless one...

here's a read on just what you are asking w/ pictured results...
http://www.routerforums.com/router-b...n-project.html

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 12:10 PM
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Hey, n/a; welcome!
"Just never done the MT joint.."
Have you considered a spline, rather than m&t?
If you don't want to see the spline, you could stop the groove short of the ends.
Easier with a router than a tablesaw if you wanted the stopped channel, rather than full length.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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LOL yeah. I was on here a year or so ago as mr500, but I lost the PW so I re registered. Thanks for the info...
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 12:40 PM
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Mike! I didn't recognize you with the 'e'...
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 12:53 PM
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Welcome back Mike. Stick's link is to an extensive thread on the exact same subject. Generally when you cross grain direction you have to build in some movement to the design because wood doesn't swell lengthwise almost at all but does across the grain so when you lock cross grain to long grain and it starts to swell or shrink something has to give.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Yes it was a huge read to say the least lol
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah big read. Funny thing is, I am doing pretty much the same table. Just going to be a lil longer and wider lol.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-30-2016, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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OK. read over the 20+ pages and have some good info now. So this is what I am taking away from post. I am making the top with 2x10's. So following the 1/3 rule I need a tennon at 1 1/2 wide and bout 1/2 thick. Followed with a 1 5/8 x 1/2 mortise. Does that sound about right?
Will an edge guide on the router be sufficient to make the 1.5” wide cut? I can make a jig that the router will follow, but wondering if the edge guide will be easier. I do not have a shoulder plane but I am thinking about buying one. Might be nice to have since I want to start using the MT joint on my projects.
Do not know if I will do the mortise on the router table or make a jig and do it free style. On the table might be better since I can use the fence and add in stop blocks for the length.

Thoughts?
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-30-2016, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mer500 View Post
OK. read over the 20+ pages and have some good info now. So this is what I am taking away from post. I am making the top with 2x10's.

1... So following the 1/3 rule I need a tenon at 1 1/2 wide and bout 1/2 thick. Followed with a 1 5/8 x 1/2 mortise. Does that sound about right?
2... Will an edge guide on the router be sufficient to make the 1.5” wide cut? I can make a jig that the router will follow, but wondering if the edge guide will be easier.
3... I do not have a shoulder plane but I am thinking about buying one. Might be nice to have since I want to start using the MT joint on my projects.
4... Do not know if I will do the mortise on the router table or make a jig and do it free style. On the table might be better since I can use the fence and add in stop blocks for the length.

Thoughts?
20 pages and you survived... cool...
set your preferences to 40 posts per page and make reading easier on yourself...

1... yes...
2... router mounted -Not if I could help it... I'd pass and use a straight edge on the table top after the top is put together.....
3... I have several makes of shoulder planes...
the Stanley was a total waste of money...
My Millerfalls is very nice..
The Record is okay...
the Veritas is a love affair... Veritas® Shoulder Planes - Lee Valley Tools
4... I use a jig and plunge router...
better control and safer...
hog most of your material out of the mortise and you'll be miles ahead not to mention not so hard on the bit(s)..
5... Spline that top together and move to the head of the class...

the Stanley 92 shoulder...
what I and others have had to say...

It's very painful to the heel of your hand to use....
blade is a PITA to adjust by .001"...
Casting is poorly cast/machined...
blade is wider than the body by way too much....
The slotted adjustment screws are chintzy...
The iron came poorly ground and dull...
Needs resharpening often.... very often...
I honestly believe that the iron isn't F2 steel or even close.
The iron takes some/lot of fiddling to get in and out...
Sides parallel to each other, but not at a right angles to base.
Sole cupped.
Mouth creeps during use.
QC sucks..........
this plane has pissed me off....

REVIEWS:

Ya made me go dig up some reviews.... (not at the sellers sites either)
ya'd thunk I wrote them....
the older 92's got good reviews.. the newest, not so good, some of them weren't as kind as I was...
and I honestly believe that the iron isn't A2 steel or even close... more like F2...
the sole isn't square to the sides... and is cupped...
*
Review: UK-Stanley No 92 Not Worth The Money Saved - by HorizontalMike @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
*
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/s...ons-t40896.htm...
*
Sides parallel to each other, but not at a right angles to base. Off by nominally 1/3 degree. That can be "tuned" out with a lot of effort when lapping the base/sole.

Big problem, the blade was narrower than body/sole. Blade should be about 0.002" per side (0.004" total) wider than sole/body. Body was nominally 0.753". Blade was less than 0.749" wide. That is at least 0.008" shy of a rebate plane that has any chance of working. One can tune a plane (or tuna fish), but adding width to a blade is not in that category. Nor is lapping the body/sole down to below blade width--at least for a woodworker without a machine shop.
*
This review is from: Stanley 12-140 No.92 Shoulder and Chisel Plane (Tools & Home Improvement)
I went to the local Woodcraft looking for a rabbit plane and this was the best solution. The overall finish is good no machine marks blade square to the body so i bought it. Once i started using it the problem list grew fast. The lever cap is machined too lose and doesn't stay square to the body. You can not adjust the mouth opening for a light shaving. The other problem is that when you push the plane it opens the mouth. I was using it on a hardwood, but it still it should keep a tight mouth. The chisel part of the plane is just as bad. I am going to try to return. Unfortunately Stanley put the SW stamp on it and what once was a great trade mark in a era of great tools Stanley ruined it.
*
I own the smoothing and jack planes that are part of this new series of Sweetheart planes from stanley. Both the smoothing and jack planes were impressive right out of the box. They both required some work, honing of the blades and smoothing out the sole. They are not as 'refined' as my Lie Nielsen planes but then 'you get what you pay for'.
So when this shoulder plane became available I ordered it. On first impression it is a nice looking plane. But when picked up it was uncomfortable to hold (a bit of a problem for a 'hand' tool) This was due to the sharp edges all around the top and sides. The blade had some serious machining marks and the A2 steel took a LONG time to get those marks out and hone. It did not help that the back side of the blade was not flat. The sole was also not flat and took a REAL LONG time to flatten. The sharp top edges of the planes body had to be carefully relieved taking care not to scratch the front sides and back in the process.
The 92's new design does make it easier than the old model to set and adjust the blade. The heftier body and blade allows it cut very nicely.
For the money I think I would have preferred to pay extra for a Lie Nielsen or Veritas shoulder plane.
I was disappointed that this shoulder plane did not match the quality of its sibling smoother and jack planes.
*
The Stanley Sweetheart No. 92 shoulder plane feels reasonably good in the hand and has good length and heft, but out of the box it is far from usable, or at least that was the case with mine. The instruction sheet claims the iron is honed and ready for use out of the box, but that is seldom the case and was no different here. That was easily remedied by my WorkSharp grinder, however. The sole had a slight cupping just behind the mouth, but this also was fairly easy to flatten out. The big problem for me has been the plane's frog, which is cast as part of the body, not a separate adjustable piece. Removing the iron revealed that the frog was very poorly ground and skewed badly to the right, which explained why the plane would cut on the right side, but no amount of adjusting gave me any shavings off the left side. The body shape makes it impossible to simply grind the frog flat, so instead it took a considerable amount of time with a flat file to get things half way usable. Having just used the plane trimming several cherry tenons, I know I still have some work to do to get things where they ought to be. I know many would consider this a "cheap" plane, but for $80, I hoped for better workmanship. I would not recommend it unless you are prepared to spend a couple hours getting it in shape.
*
This plane was pretty much as others have stated. Looked nice out of the box, edges sharp. The body was .750 wide, blade was .748. The sides were parallel and 90 degrees to the sole. The sole was flat. The back side of the blade was easy to hone flat. As another has said the real problem was the frog. It was machined off. The blade cut a shaving about 1/4'' wide on the right side only. After setting it up and checking it with an indicator it was off .007 across the frog side to side. After setting it up on a surface grinder and grinding it to where it should have been out of the box, it works great. If you don't have access to a surface grinder there would be a lot of time involved trying to get it right. Should not be this way, hopefully quality control will take note.

.
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File Type: pdf R4 SPLINES 1.pdf (100.1 KB, 61 views)
File Type: pdf R4 JOINER SUBSTITUTE.pdf (34.4 KB, 61 views)

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 07-30-2016 at 10:42 AM.
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