Shaker door with trim inside - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 02:46 PM
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Most full and medium size routers have 12mm collets available. You can use a 1/4 or 6mm router for light duty work, but thay don't have interchangeable collets, just the 6mm. Don't really know what your router has because the models are different here.

If the roundover is cut on the rails and stiles, then you have to let the roundover part protrude below where the rail joins the stiles. That could be a little tricky to do and will probably requie a razor sharp chisel and a little very careful carving. Again, the wood filler will cover up any mistakes.

Using a chisel for things like this is usually done by placing the chisel and slowly rocking it side to side slightly to cut a little deeper into the wood, then shifting the chisel 90 degrees and removing the waste only as deep as the first cut goes. If you try to take too much, the roundover will split. SLOW, SLOW, SLOW. Look up how to sharpen a chisel using the Scary Sharp method (sandpaper of many grits, coarse to very fine on a very flat surface). It's sharp enough when you can easily shave a bit of hair from your arm. You will need at least a half inch (6 mm) chisel.

Don't be too quick to reject the roundover trim suggestion. It will be far simpler, and you can use your roundover bit to make your own, at least while you still have a table saw. You cut the trim material to the thickness you need, do the roundover on the full sized piece, then use the table saw to cut off a thin piece the size and length you need. Roundover both edges, cut them off, then roundover and cut another strip from the same material. You can make them any size you want, even from the exact same material you're using for the doors. Here's a video on making your own roundover, it is for larger size, but the same principle applies.

I also think you will need to cut off the edges of the 12mm panels to fit in the rails and stiles. You can't really put a 12 mm thick panel (tongue) into a 13mm groove and have a leftover 5 mm to support it all, and still have room for a roundover on the door. The diagram shows what I mean. It shows the option of an angled cut with a table saw or a straight cut with the same groove cutter. The edge of plywood is not very attractive in a panel, so you mount it with the flat side showing. The alternative is to use thinner plywood for the panel.

Finally, I think you can see the value of having a table saw.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 03:40 PM
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@TenGees yes this was what I was looking at first, buying a ready set. but currently my experience is too bad to know which bits are good and the "obvious" good ones seems to cost a fortune. Is it possible to add a 1/2 shank/collet (what's the difference between the two?) to my 1200w router or would it be too weak? seems most "fun bits" are made to be used with 1/2 shank/collet.
I don't know the model router, but if it only has a 1/4 inch collet (6mm), then that's the largest you can use. You can get a groove cutter in 6mm, but go fairly slowly and don't push it too hard. BTW, you don't seat the bit all the way into the collet. You drop it all the way in then lift it up about 3mm, then tighten the collet.

I am pretty sure you will be able to find Freud bits where you live, the best ones are made in Italy. They are among my favorites.

In all my posts, I've tried to suggest methods that you can do with your existing router and without spending much money out for tools.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:32 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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In all my posts, I've tried to suggest methods that you can do with your existing router and without spending much money out for tools.
Yes your replies has been consistently awesome, I have been experimenting with some scrap wood I had on hand (not good enough quality) and the results so far has been dissappointing, as expected. But I feel it was worth it for learning. Time well spent.

Now I know how I will make it, your idea about doing the roundover trim and later attach it was awesome I think this is easiest and best method for me to use. Just make a normal shaker door and later attach them, gives the best looking corners and for a amateur like me is a good way to get started. Just need to experiement a bit to find the correct sizes of the rounderover trim and the panels.
Any advice on how to connect the roundovers so they dont start "moving" after awhile? The house they will be put in is a old farmhands house (we live in the old farmers house) and winter time the inside temperature will be around 10-13 degrees celcius, so worried about movements in the wood. It appears I need to buy all the material anyways so suggestion on what type of wood would also be great, they will be painted with a solid tint (that make sense?), no lasyr or showthrough. I was thinking about using... when I translate it in google it says "deal", wood from pine tree.
My lady has given me "full control" of this house, not so much the main house...

I noticed the panel thickness is too big at 12mm, going to look around for 6-7mm. Also looking around on other peoples projects in this site I think I will make a trim on the backside of the frame to fit into the "dooropening" so to speak, gives it a better connection I believe and overall more "professional" feel.

With the router I bought it came with collets 6mm, 8mm and 1/4 inch. I believe 1/2 inch is 12,something millimeters, maybe 12,3 or such. 8mm is almost like 1/3.

Edit: Wanted to add also going to experiment with groove cutter on the back of the panel, as per your diagram.

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by megamatch View Post
... @TenGees yes this was what I was looking at first, buying a ready set. but currently my experience is too bad to know which bits are good and the "obvious" good ones seems to cost a fortune. Is it possible to add a 1/2 shank/collet (what's the difference between the two?) to my 1200w router or would it be too weak? seems most "fun bits" are made to be used with 1/2 shank/collet.
Most of this has been answered but I'd like to add: I don't know if you can find a rail & stile set (without a panel bit) in a small shaft. That would be cheaper and the panel bit is what really requires the big shank and router power (large radius).
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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I think you've made a wise decision to use trim. Wood expands and contracts mainly across the grain, and almos nothing with the grain, so expansion and contraction of the trim isn't an issue. If you go with the 6mm ply panel, you won't have any expansion to speak of, however, you can make certain by gluing the panel in place only in the top and bottom center of the panel. It is being held in by the groove anyhow. Whatever finish you decide to use, finish the panels before you assemble them. Very hard to apply finish thoroughly after assembly.

Once you glue on the trim, with modern glues, it will NEVER come off. Get the slowest setting glue you can find so you won't feel rushed. In a warm room, the most common glue sets up in 2 to 4 minutes so you don't have time to fiddle with it. The slowest setting glues stay "open" for 15-20 minutes. Use a small brush or a small stick to apply the glue to the door. Don't use very much glue because when you place the trim, it will squeeze out. You can't apply finish over glue or you'll have a white spot. If glue does squeeze out, you let it sit for a few moments and as it stiffens up, scrape it off. A little sanding after the glue is dry will remove any residue.

I suggest you place the roundove trim starting on one edge and work your way around the door, fitting one edge at a time. It is easier to make if fit and look good that way. You do this fitting and cutting before gluing, BTW

To hold the trim in place, I suggest you consider borrowing or renting an air compressor and buy what's called a pin nailer. This tool is very inexpensive and shoots in very fine pins with no heads. They make a tiny hole that is almost impossible to see (remember you can fill cracks and pinholes by rubbing a bit of Timber Mate filler across it). Buy the Timber Mate from Amazon, and order the color that matches the wood you're working with on the trim (probably a good, kiln dried pine).

For a smooth surface, I start by sanding with a 150 grit paper, then up to 220. Any finer grit makes particles that stick on the wood grain. Before you finish a sanded surface, buy a package of waxed "Tack Cloth" to rub on the surface and remove all sawdust. Almost any paint and finish materials store will have this.

If you want it to look best, apply a sanding sealer to the wood before sanding. This raises the grain slightly before you sand and renders a smoother surface. Apply and sand within two hours, but let it dry a bit before you sand.

Most of the time, I finish using a simple combination of water-based stain in whatever color I like best. On the clean, clean, dust free project, I apply some pre-stain to the surface, which smooths out the stain's coverage. Within 2 hours, I then use a cloth to rub the stain lightly onto the wood and wipe off any excess. Stir, not shake, the stain gently but thoroughly to make sure the particles in the stain are mixed thoroughly. Apply and repeat until you get the color you want. Try this all out on a piece of scrap first and take notes.

You can get water based or oil based stain. Oil based stain must be applied, the excess wiped off (reapplied for darker finish, wiped again) and allowed to dry at least 24 hours before applying the final coats of finish as described below. I really prefer the water based stain. If I forget to use the sanding sealer, after the first application of stain I must then sand the raised fibers off with a few light passes with 220 grit sandpaper, then use the tack cloth. This happens on occasion because I'm human.

Finally, I most often use something called "wipe on poly" in either gloss or semi gloss. This gives it a shiny appearance and seals and protects the finish. I apply this with a disposable brush or just as good, with a paper towel folded over several time to form something like a brush. You can thin down the wipe on poly to give it a longer drying time and make for an even smoother finish. Instructions for thinning is on the can or bottle of poly. I usually apply 2 to 4 layers, until it looks perfect.

The finish really makes the project look either great, or anateurish. Worth taking the time to do it right.

OR, you can sand as described, tack cloth it, and apply paint. Simpler and paint works unless you want the look of finished wood. I made a 10 foot long set of cabinets topped with two book cases and a large space in the middle for the flat screen TV. It is painted because I always like the look of painted book cases, and the plywood I used didn't look all that good to me.

Hope you didn't get bored with my short novel of a post, but finishing is really important, and most of finishing is about the preparation of the project. My method is one of MANY ways to finish a project, but it has been easy and reliable for me and doesn't cost much.

BTW, I use small, shallow plastic food cups to hold the stain and poly. Don't dip your brush into the can! You will likely add some particles to the stain or poly that will ruin the whole batch. I use disposable plastic spoons to ladle out enough of either to do the job.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for very good and detailed information @DesertRatTom this was a gold mine for the finishing work. I bookmarked the page for later reference, perhaps should edit some and make a sticky out of this? been very helpful.

I wish I could write with how my progress has been, unfortnately I've been having issues assembling my router table and still haven't finished it.

Seems I cannot remove the springs easily from my router model and thus I need to mount the whole piece, was going to use a insert plate (for easier access to change bits and collet/shank) but the material I had couldn't take the extra size and weight from the router without bulging and since this is a limited depth router I didnt want to use too thick material either, currently looking around for metal scraps, preferbly aluminium but everything I find is 1-2mm.

Guess the table is a topic of its own.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 01:40 PM
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Thanks for very good and detailed information @DesertRatTom this was a gold mine for the finishing work. I bookmarked the page for later reference, perhaps should edit some and make a sticky out of this? been very helpful.

I wish I could write with how my progress has been, unfortnately I've been having issues assembling my router table and still haven't finished it.

Seems I cannot remove the springs easily from my router model and thus I need to mount the whole piece, was going to use a insert plate (for easier access to change bits and collet/shank) but the material I had couldn't take the extra size and weight from the router without bulging and since this is a limited depth router I didnt want to use too thick material either, currently looking around for metal scraps, preferbly aluminium but everything I find is 1-2mm.

Guess the table is a topic of its own.
The opening for the plate will be fairly large, and the plate will be level with the top. I think the second layer is a good idea, and helpls keep the table flat over time. It can have the same size opening as the top layer, or be smaller to provide a lip to prevent the plate falling through. I like MDF for the bottom layer because it is FLAT! Just don't get it wet.

I think it is a little daunting to position the mounting holes precisely in a home made or undrilled plate. The best way is to use the base plate as a template. Then put a punch into the correct holes and mark where you will drill. It is easier to position the small bolt if you drill the holes as shown in the last diagram, with the top part of the hole drilled only part way, and a smaller, but still slightly oversized hole, in the middle of the larger opening. That way if you're off slightly, you have a little "wiggle" room. See plate cross section diagram.

You use leveling screws underneath the plate to make it match the top surface of the table. When you mount the router on the plate, you remove the phenolic base. That means the router on the plate will be very close to the surface, so there will be plenty of height for any bit you choose to use. Here's a diagram of leveling screws for the concept, and a picture of the leveling screws I prefer, made by Kreg, and costing about $20 for the set of four.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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Hello again!

Yes using a rabbet was my intended idea, the problem is my router is made for handheld and you cannot remove the handles thus the insert plate need to be a little bit bigger. was going to use some scrap plywood i had lying around, but when i made the plate out of it and with a rabbet in the table (and because the plate had to be bigger, due to not removing handles etc) the plate started to "fail" in the middle, now my poor english shows. dont know how to say but plate was going down in middle where router was attached?

as the the table itself the top will be made from laminat kitchen countertop (my friend had some leftover from doing his kitchen).

I think I could probably easily fix this with maybe some thicker aluminium or maybe 8mm acrylic sheet, I just havent been able to head to the shops yet, working fulltime and 2 small children, I am doing all this once they are asleep.
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