Enlarging a template by exactly the size of the cutter-bushing gap? - Page 5 - Router Forums
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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 03:58 PM
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Thanks for that video. I see now how the track saw is being used that way. So neither the distance X between holes is critical nor is the Y distance between them critical so long as the individual holes in an X row or a Y column are at 90* to each other. So what I would do to make sure that happens is to use the pegboard (since that seems to be the easiest solution) and put a physical stop along the bottom edge that will butt up against the edge of the top. The pegboard ensures that the holes stay at right angles to one another by ensuring that the sheet has the same Y relationship to the top each time it gets moved to make a new column of holes.

As for spacing, you don't want the first and last columns to be different distances from the edges and unless all tops will be the same size then this will require that you set the jig to account for this. Since only the 90* relationship between rows and columns is what is important in this circumstance exactly how far in from either edge isn't important, only that they are about the same amount. So you can locate the first row by just doing the math and locating the jig so that it will do that since the pegboard doesn't allow changing hole spacing easily.

The easiest way to get even spacing between columns after the first one is drilled is to just put a bench dog in the first and last holes and butt the edge of the pegboard against the dogs and the cleat attached to the pegboard against the bottom edge of the top and essentially leap frog that way from column to column. This is simpler than pegging it if you are using a guide bushing and router bit because a peg for that would need to be stepped with an upper diameter equal to the guide bushing and a lower diameter equal to the router bit diameter. That would require a lathe and some very careful turning. The one criteria here is that the rows on the pegboard have to be parallel to the sides and the bottom of the pegboard square to the edges. You'd need to make sure of that.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 04:03 PM
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Default your included material

Originally Posted by Stick486 View Post
this might help..

It looks like the included material would be useful to save for future reference. Do you have the charts in a format that could be saved?
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bfblack View Post
It looks like the included material would be useful to save for future reference. Do you have the charts in a format that could be saved?
the PDF is saveable as is...
the charts also...
right click on them and click on ''save as'' in the drop down menu...

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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Biagio View Post
@Ashley ,

Just a thought: the Festool system uses holes at (I think) 96mm centres.
The Festool solution Biagio mentioned has been done. You'll need to have the one of the "holey rails", a Festool router guide and a Festool Router. Here's the video:

The 55" rail is $145. The Router (1400 EQ) is $600. The guide plate is $140. Very expensive stuff (obscenely expensive, like everything Festool). I tried using a Bosch 20mm bit (needs 10mm collect adapter), but the holes were oversized and the dog fit was too sloppy. Ditto with the Festool bit. These are not spiral bits. I know Festool sells a 20mm spiral bit in Europe, but not in the U.S. It can probably be ordered, but the shipping is a killer. I know Amazon UK sells the Festool.
I don't know about other brands, and I don't know how accurate the Festool spiral is. The problem with 20mm bits available here is that they are for Euro cup hinges and are oversized to accommodate. Your finished holes will only be as good as the cutter (or the template). Aside from the Woodpeckers router template, the only accurate holes appear to come from 20mm forstner drill bits (e.g., UJK Parf system). 20mm forstner bits can be found here: https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/...-guide-system/

Oh, and I recall mention of using a bearing guided bit. They aren't accurate enough - or at least none that I've found. I've tried Freud and Whiteside. No dice. I don't remember for certainty, but I believe the holes were undersized.

FWIW, I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out jigs and such until you find a bit (router or forstner) that cuts an acceptable hole. I've tried the pegboard and other methods, and the weakest link was always the hole size - always too large with router bits. If you go with a forstner, a drill guide is a must have. However, getting the tram right on your drill press is essential. Side-to-side is no problem with a tilting head drill press, but front-to-back is another matter altogether. I don't know know of any column drill presses that can be adjusted front-to-back. Remember, if the bit goes in at any angle, however slight, you are going to have a hole where the dog won't fit like it should. If you are contemplating using a drill bushing, I wouldn't even think about it freehand. Every drill guide I've ever used, and I've used a few over the past 45 or so years, has been way too loose for the precision you need. It would just be dumb luck to get a hole with the degree of perpendicularity you want and need. If I was going to drill something for a guide bushing, I would use my PM25MV mill (perfect tram) to drill the hole(a).

I'm not sure whether you are aware of it, but you can make custom patterns with the UJK Parf Guide System. So, if you want some sort of custom layout, you can probably do it with the Parf Guide.

I've read the back and forth about about expectations and accuracy. As noted, you need a properly sized hole, or nothing else will matter much. It's surprising just how little things can be off to produce a 1/16"= error in a kitchen cabinet sized piece of plywood. I'm thinking an error that large isn't something you'd want to accept.

Here's my view. Errors tend to be cumulative. If I just settle here and settle there, I'll likely end up with a finished product that I'm unhappy with. Perfection is unattainable, but you can get darned close. Strive for perfection and the odds are good you'll be happy with the end result. Depends on the project. I take much more care with a furniture piece than I would with construction project. Just my 2 cents.


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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tomp913 View Post
Take a look at the Parf Guide - make the top any size that you need.

YES! You beat me to it.

To this, I’ll add that depending on the material you are cutting and its glue content, your projects are likely to kill multiple router bits.

How do I know this? Because, and this brings up my alternate suggestion, I found a CNC guy on Craigslist who charged me $50 to cut what you’re describing in a 3’ x 6’ MFT Slab. The CNC is the ideal approach (highly repetitive and precise), and after the lightweight MDF sheet was cut I noticed that my bit was noticeably more dull.

The CNC is so much more efficient and faster, with the added benefit of zero errors along the way. There are lots of folks out there who are heavily invested in their CNC’s and are often looking for paying customers for these very simple one-off projects.
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