The utter stupidity of Imperial measurements - Page 102 - Router Forums
Old 10-15-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
Harry is correct, most of the world doesn't agree. There are only 3 countries left worldwide that use Imperial measure and I'm not sure that they are the same. The British inch and US inch were different until around 1939 when they were standardized to equal to 25.4mm. The reason for this was that the US was helping make parts for British .303 caliber rifles and the parts didn't always fit because of the slight difference in the values of the inch. The gallon was also different (4.55L as opposed to 3.79L) and there were 160 ounces to it. Countries currently using Imperial measure represent about 1/14th of the world's population and that will decrease to zero eventually. There is zero chance that it will increase.

What you are accustomed to and what makes sense are often totally different. Read the following carefully and then be my guest at making a logical argument as to how it is intelligent. 12 inches= 1 foot. 3 feet= 1 yard. 5280 feet or 1760 yards equal a mile. An acre is 43,560 sq ft. You can't actually square an acre. It's 208 feet and an irrational fraction if you try. It can only be a rectangle. There are 16 ounces to the pound but it also equal to 7000 grains. And let's not forget drams and carats, rods, chains, perches and rest of the Imperial system.

So someone make a logical argument as to why Harry's is wrong. I suppose his title for this thread could have been a bit more tactful and less abrasive but his assessment is correct. And don't forget that at his age he started out with the Imperial system. He was well along in years before his countries adopted metric so he has been on both sides of the argument.

In my opinion, Charles is, as we say "spot on" in regard to both issues.

Jerry
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Old 10-15-2017, 05:52 PM
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?
Most of the world doesn't agree that systems of measurement are simply a tool for humans to relate to a distance? That's a fact and the point of my post. If they dont agree with that they don't understand what systems of units are for.

Actually, I would say every country in the world agrees with me, that measurements are simply a tools for humans to relate to distance and both systems work, actually that's a fact as proved by the millions of projects us American's pump put every year.

How could anyone disagree with how I relate to measurements and how my mind own mind works. That is is what my post talks about. People disagreeing doesn't change that fact. Though I can use metric and most likely better than most, I prefer Imperial and mils specifically for my CNC units.

More to the point people that choose to use metric seem to always care so much, why do they care? I don't care they use metric. If they are frustrated with Imperial just use metric and make some nice projects, I'll stick to what I think and not what "most others" think. I think that both systems work and it really doesn't matter which we use. One is not better than the other, one may be simpler to use for large group of people but it doesn't make it better for every person. The results are always going to be the same using either system no matter the application. I say use whatever is simplest for each person.

Last edited by dovetail_65; 10-15-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dovetail_65 View Post
?
Most of the world doesn't agree that systems of measurement are simply a tool for humans to relate to a distance? That's a fact and the point of my post. If they dont agree with that they don't understand what systems of units are for.

Actually, I would say every country in the world agrees with me, that measurements are simply a tools for humans to relate to distance and both systems work, actually that's a fact as proved by the millions of projects us American's pump put every year.

How could anyone disagree with how I relate to measurements and how my mind own mind works. That is is what my post talks about. People disagreeing doesn't change that fact. Though I can use metric and most likely better than most, I prefer Imperial and mils specifically for my CNC units.

More to the point people that choose to use metric seem to always care so much, why do they care? I don't care they use metric. If they are frustrated with Imperial just use metric and make some nice projects, I'll stick to what I think and not what "most others" think. I think that both systems work and it really doesn't matter which we use. One is not better than the other, one may be simpler to use for large group of people but it doesn't make it better for every person. The results are always going to be the same using either system no matter the application. I say use whatever is simplest for each person.
Dovetail,
I could not agree with you more, makes perfect sense. Certain people hve a closed mind to anything that is foreign to what the have known and used all of their lives, that's just natural.

Everything that I have read about Astronomy, lwhich is is not all that much comepared to real astromoners, Emperical numbers are used, at least here in the U.S..

Distances to the moon, the sun, light year distances etc. etc.. If I had been raised on the metric system, I would be as familiar with it as I am on the Emperical system.

But what Harrys said about the Eperical system must be used very little compared to the metric system. I for one didn't know that and will add, I could not care less.

The Emperical system may seem stupid to Harry, but people that use it are not stupeid, he did say that they were, but he sort of implied that he thinks that, or so it sounded to me. I suspect that Harry will clear that point up as he is not one to run rough shot over people, at least not all of the time, ummmmm

Jerry
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:48 PM
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Actually, Jerry, I brought that point up a couple of years back, and no, Harry did not apologize for insinuating by implication that Imperial measurement users are stupid.
I'm not going back through 30 odd pages of posts to find it either; it's somewhere past pg. 10.
I walked away from the discussion at that point. Let me just say that I'm surprised that it's been revived.

Like Dovetail said, to each their own.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:53 PM
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My entire schooling was based on the Imperial system & I am absolutely positive I could have done better at mathematics (I achieved only C) with the Metric system as it is so much simpler to use.
So I think some members are missing the point of Harry's post as,put simply,with some metric measure to find the answer,one only needs to move the decimal point.Jamesjj

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Old 10-15-2017, 11:02 PM
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No we are not missing the point. The wording "the utter stupidity" implies anyone that uses it is stupid and even if that's not the intent it is what it is and could of been stated better.

Metric units were made up just like Imperial units and only very recently has the meter been equated to a length of light so really metric isn't any better in that sense. There were many weird definition for meter over the years. Now the standard is :

The meter is the length of the path traveled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second. Note that the effect of this definition is to fix the speed of light in vacuum at exactly 299 792 458 m.

That is just as weird as a King saying a foot is the length of his foot. If you dont think so please tell me what the meter is again a minute from now without reading the definition I just wrote. I am betting many if not most people that use metric don't have a clue of the definition and who cares it really does not matter as long as it stays the same.

The point is the distances stay the same and universal so we can manipulate distances and weights, etc in a consistent manner.

What people really mean when they say metric is better and makes more sense really has little to do with metric nomenclature itself, what they mean and what they like and think is simpler is that metric uses the decimal system base 10 to break down it's defined units in multiples of tens, tenths, hundredths, thousandths, etc. For most humans these are very simple to work with. It's not that a meter or gram make more sense, but that the decimal base 10 system is used for the metric unit break down and manipulation.

It is very true too. Most humans can manipulate 10's much easier, but heck I can use a hexadecimal base 12 pretty fast too, but base 12 is cumbersome for small numbers, great for really large numbers though. Since in woodworking and CNC we use small numbers metric makes sense for many as some dont want to think fractionally, but for me mils make even more sense as I can use the base 10 benefit of metric in the imperial inch unit using thousandths or .001 inch. Which again I feel is a better measurement for my type of woodworking and especially, precise small cnc work. For me a millimeter is too large, but a manometer is too small, .001 inch is preferct6.

It boils done to what each person can use and get the results they want with the least amount of effort, it it is metric great, if it is Imperial great. Neither are stupid.

I am not sure why you think metric would of made your schooling any easier, we all learned it in 3rd grade through high school here in the US. My kids are using both SI units and Metric right now and we did back in the 80's well. I college of course we use both and back in 3rd grade is when I was first exposed to metric, I am 52 years old, so we do learn metric in the US, possibly in your state it was different?

Last edited by dovetail_65; 10-15-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 10-15-2017, 11:55 PM
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Oh boy,it was different alright.It's the same with our language.I say school not shool & yet I was taught to pronounce schedule as shed ule not schedule.You say sodder we say sol der.These are just a couple of examples I'm trying to explain (& am not receiving much help from spellcheck).So when I read Harry's post I couldn't see anything wrong with it.It's his way of saying a certain system is stupid & no way was he inferring the people who use that system are stupid.It's just the way we talk down here mate.

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Old 10-16-2017, 01:04 AM
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I agree with James that it's the system that is stupid and not the people that use it. And as as Dovetail points out, it's possible to use a ridiculously illogical measuring system as long as it's consistently reproducible. And if I'm not mistaken DT, the US standard is also now based on a given number of wavelengths of light emitted by energizing krypton 86 gas. When I was young and studying physics the standard was a platinum iridium bar with two scratches in in stored deep underground in a vault but I heard years later that the bar was found to be losing weight which meant that it was not stable and couldn't be trusted. Just as the original standard for the metre was found to be unreliable which the French Academy of Science couldn't have known in 1792 when they devised the system. It was meant to be equal to 1/10,000,000th of the distance of the equator to the poles but they didn't know that the earth is shrinking and that it wouldn't be a constant. And that was the goal of the Academy was to create a system that would be consistent forever. And it is and it's reproducible anywhere in the universe where light and water exist.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:13 AM
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I've made a number of items from plans and the plans with Imperial measurements, e.g. one was an elec Guitar, another a toy truck. For the guitar I converted everything on an internet "conversion" site and wrote up the plans. No problems just a little more work.
Then during winter when the antique hand tools people had their biannual sale here I bought an imperial rule for \$3.00

I'd reckon it's line ball which will change first in the USA gun laws or imperial measurement, spit in one hand and wish in the other as the saying goes...........

Cheers Kerry

Kerry

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Old 10-16-2017, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dovetail_65 View Post
No we are not missing the point. The wording "the utter stupidity" implies anyone that uses it is stupid and even if that's not the intent it is what it is and could of been stated better.

Metric units were made up just like Imperial units and only very recently has the meter been equated to a length of light so really metric isn't any better in that sense. There were many weird definition for meter over the years. Now the standard is :

The meter is the length of the path traveled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second. Note that the effect of this definition is to fix the speed of light in vacuum at exactly 299 792 458 m.

That is just as weird as a King saying a foot is the length of his foot. If you dont think so please tell me what the meter is again a minute from now without reading the definition I just wrote. I am betting many if not most people that use metric don't have a clue of the definition and who cares it really does not matter as long as it stays the same.

The point is the distances stay the same and universal so we can manipulate distances and weights, etc in a consistent manner.

What people really mean when they say metric is better and makes more sense really has little to do with metric nomenclature itself, what they mean and what they like and think is simpler is that metric uses the decimal system base 10 to break down it's defined units in multiples of tens, tenths, hundredths, thousandths, etc. For most humans these are very simple to work with. It's not that a meter or gram make more sense, but that the decimal base 10 system is used for the metric unit break down and manipulation.

It is very true too. Most humans can manipulate 10's much easier, but heck I can use a hexadecimal base 12 pretty fast too, but base 12 is cumbersome for small numbers, great for really large numbers though. Since in woodworking and CNC we use small numbers metric makes sense for many as some dont want to think fractionally, but for me mils make even more sense as I can use the base 10 benefit of metric in the imperial inch unit using thousandths or .001 inch. Which again I feel is a better measurement for my type of woodworking and especially, precise small cnc work. For me a millimeter is too large, but a manometer is too small, .001 inch is preferct6.

It boils done to what each person can use and get the results they want with the least amount of effort, it it is metric great, if it is Imperial great. Neither are stupid.

I am not sure why you think metric would of made your schooling any easier, we all learned it in 3rd grade through high school here in the US. My kids are using both SI units and Metric right now and we did back in the 80's well. I college of course we use both and back in 3rd grade is when I was first exposed to metric, I am 52 years old, so we do learn metric in the US, possibly in your state it was different?
The "like" button was pressed in error"

"No we are not missing the point. The wording "the utter stupidity" implies anyone that uses it is stupid and even if that's not the intent it is what it is and could of been stated better."

Your understanding of the English language is far different to mine and my education was in England. The utter stupidity of the Imperial system refers to those who invented it, certainly not the users of the system. For some reason that I can't fathom the title of the thread appears to have hit a raw nerve with you. No other reader of the thread has taken exception to it, they have simply given their opinion, whether agreeing or disagreeing.

Harry

Nothing but heaven itself is better than a friend who is really a friend. - Plautus

Last edited by harrysin; 10-16-2017 at 01:57 AM.
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