Grinder & Belt Sander Tool Rest Setup Gauge - Router Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Default Grinder & Belt Sander Tool Rest Setup Gauge

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When you sharpen your own chisels and wood turning knives, youíll find it necessary to set your grinder or sander support table to different angles for different tools. Of course, youíll find it necessary to repeat the previously set angle, to avoid removing valuable steel from the tools, and to get consistent cuts.

Setting up a tool rest of a grinder or belt sander to grind a specific angle presents a challenge because you can't use triangle templates (see first photo), angle gauges like I use in the steps of this ible, or similar set up tools.

You can use a bevel gauge. To do so, youíll have to set it to the angle you need for the tool youíre sharpening. You can do this using a protractor to set the bevel gauge, then use the gauge to set the tool rest of the belt sander or grinder. This requires two steps, two tools and trying to set an angle twice.

Another quicker and more simple method is, use an obtuse angle template with the angle you need.

Unfortunately, obtuse angle templates arenít easy to come by. Even on line. If you do find them, you may not be able to buy an angle template with the angle you want or need. Or you may not like the material its made from or even the size of the template. Your best bet may be to make your own gauges, since they are easy to fabricate.

To make your own set up angle gauges, you'll need the following:

[TOOLS]

1) Safety glasses.

2) Hearing protection.

3) An adjustable angle protractor.

or

3a) A protractor

and

3b) An adjustable bevel gauge.

4) Something to mark the material for cutting:

- An awl, knife or other sharp, pointed tool can scribe lines into plastic and aluminum surfaces.

or

- A fine tipped, felt pen.

or

- A sharp or mechanical pencil

NOTE: Choose the means of marking the material which works best for you. For example, the sharp point of an awl or knife works well for marking plastics that have had the paper removed. A fine felt tip pen may also work. A pen, fine point felt tip or a pencil works well for plastics with the protective paper still on. Any of the above may work for, or for marking wood, Masonite, aluminum or other material.

5) A tool which can cut the plastic, aluminum, wood, Masonite, or medium density fiberboard [MDF] youíve chosen for your templates:

a) For long cuts in aluminum, plastics, wood and things like Masonite, I use my table saw with a fine tooth blade (e.g., 60 or more teeth per inch [TPI] on a 10" blade).

NOTE: If you are cutting aluminum, you can cut it with a table or miter saw, but will need a fine toothed, carbide blade. Specialty blades designed for this, with specialty tooth settings, are commonly sold where blades are for sale. You may find it handy to have around for other aluminum projects, like cutting your own miter slot guide rails for jigs.

b) If the pieces are not so short they pose a danger holding them by hand or with a clamp, Iíll use my motorized miter box.

NOTE: The smaller the pieces being cut, the more dangerous saws become. When cutting small pieces with a motorized miter or table saw, it becomes even more important to use clamps and, in the case of the table saw, to use a sled to carry the pieces.

c) For cutting smaller pieces of material, I prefer the band saw, which may be the safest and easiest to use.

NOTE: In the course of cutting some plastics, melted plastic will build up under the cut and catch on the saw blade opening (throat). You can clamp a piece of Masonite or other thin material on the side of the blade you are holding the material from, to raise the plastic enough so the melted plastic wonít catch. The raised be should be about 1/8" away from the blade, so the melted plastic doesnít catch on it either.

d) If you have a hand held scroll saw, it can work just fine for these cuts. You will need a metal cutting blade and you will need a means of holding the material, if the pieces are small.

6) A method for smoothing the edges and fine tuning the angle:

a) A drum disk sander or edge sander, which is my go to method of smoothing the edges and adjusting the angles.

or

b) A belt sander

or

c) A course flat file at least 12" long.

7) If the sandpaper or file you used to smooth the edges and adjust the angle was very coarse, youíll need a pad sander to knock off some or all the roughness.

8) If you want a polished edge, youíll need a method of buffing them:

a) A buff pad you can mount on your drill press.

or

b) A buff pad you can mount on your lathe

or

c) A buff pad you can mount on a grinder (it MUST be able to spin at the RPM of your grinder;

or

d) An actual buffer, similar to your grinder and dedicated to buffing.

or

e) A hand held tool you can use to buff, like a die grinder, a Porter Cable random orbit [RO], variable speed sander-polisher with polishing head, or a Festool ROS with a polishing head.

MATERIALS:

1) Plexiglass, acrylic, Masonite or thin (approx. 1/8") aluminum.

2) 150 grit sandpaper

3) Polishing compound (I have very good luck with the red jewelers rouge).


For more details see the full instructions at: https://www.instructables.com/id/Ang...-Belt-Sanders/
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The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 07:53 AM
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I like your thinking!
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 08:08 AM
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A lot of good information in this post. Thank you, Kelly.

Don in Murfreesboro,Tn.

Measure once cut twice and it's still to short.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejure View Post
Attachment 329545

Attachment 329553

Attachment 329561
When you sharpen your own chisels and wood turning knives, youíll find it necessary to set your grinder or sander support table to different angles for different tools. Of course, youíll find it necessary to repeat the previously set angle, to avoid removing valuable steel from the tools, and to get consistent cuts.

Setting up a tool rest of a grinder or belt sander to grind a specific angle presents a challenge because you can't use triangle templates (see first photo), angle gauges like I use in the steps of this ible, or similar set up tools.

You can use a bevel gauge. To do so, youíll have to set it to the angle you need for the tool youíre sharpening. You can do this using a protractor to set the bevel gauge, then use the gauge to set the tool rest of the belt sander or grinder. This requires two steps, two tools and trying to set an angle twice.

Another quicker and more simple method is, use an obtuse angle template with the angle you need.

Unfortunately, obtuse angle templates arenít easy to come by. Even on line. If you do find them, you may not be able to buy an angle template with the angle you want or need. Or you may not like the material its made from or even the size of the template. Your best bet may be to make your own gauges, since they are easy to fabricate.

To make your own set up angle gauges, you'll need the following:

[TOOLS]

1) Safety glasses.

2) Hearing protection.

3) An adjustable angle protractor.

or

3a) A protractor

and

3b) An adjustable bevel gauge.

4) Something to mark the material for cutting:

- An awl, knife or other sharp, pointed tool can scribe lines into plastic and aluminum surfaces.

or

- A fine tipped, felt pen.

or

- A sharp or mechanical pencil

NOTE: Choose the means of marking the material which works best for you. For example, the sharp point of an awl or knife works well for marking plastics that have had the paper removed. A fine felt tip pen may also work. A pen, fine point felt tip or a pencil works well for plastics with the protective paper still on. Any of the above may work for, or for marking wood, Masonite, aluminum or other material.

5) A tool which can cut the plastic, aluminum, wood, Masonite, or medium density fiberboard [MDF] youíve chosen for your templates:

a) For long cuts in aluminum, plastics, wood and things like Masonite, I use my table saw with a fine tooth blade (e.g., 60 or more teeth per inch [TPI] on a 10" blade).

NOTE: If you are cutting aluminum, you can cut it with a table or miter saw, but will need a fine toothed, carbide blade. Specialty blades designed for this, with specialty tooth settings, are commonly sold where blades are for sale. You may find it handy to have around for other aluminum projects, like cutting your own miter slot guide rails for jigs.

b) If the pieces are not so short they pose a danger holding them by hand or with a clamp, Iíll use my motorized miter box.

NOTE: The smaller the pieces being cut, the more dangerous saws become. When cutting small pieces with a motorized miter or table saw, it becomes even more important to use clamps and, in the case of the table saw, to use a sled to carry the pieces.

c) For cutting smaller pieces of material, I prefer the band saw, which may be the safest and easiest to use.

NOTE: In the course of cutting some plastics, melted plastic will build up under the cut and catch on the saw blade opening (throat). You can clamp a piece of Masonite or other thin material on the side of the blade you are holding the material from, to raise the plastic enough so the melted plastic wonít catch. The raised be should be about 1/8" away from the blade, so the melted plastic doesnít catch on it either.

d) If you have a hand held scroll saw, it can work just fine for these cuts. You will need a metal cutting blade and you will need a means of holding the material, if the pieces are small.

6) A method for smoothing the edges and fine tuning the angle:

a) A drum disk sander or edge sander, which is my go to method of smoothing the edges and adjusting the angles.

or

b) A belt sander

or

c) A course flat file at least 12" long.

7) If the sandpaper or file you used to smooth the edges and adjust the angle was very coarse, youíll need a pad sander to knock off some or all the roughness.

8) If you want a polished edge, youíll need a method of buffing them:

a) A buff pad you can mount on your drill press.

or

b) A buff pad you can mount on your lathe

or

c) A buff pad you can mount on a grinder (it MUST be able to spin at the RPM of your grinder;

or

d) An actual buffer, similar to your grinder and dedicated to buffing.

or

e) A hand held tool you can use to buff, like a die grinder, a Porter Cable random orbit [RO], variable speed sander-polisher with polishing head, or a Festool ROS with a polishing head.

MATERIALS:

1) Plexiglass, acrylic, Masonite or thin (approx. 1/8") aluminum.

2) 150 grit sandpaper

3) Polishing compound (I have very good luck with the red jewelers rouge).


For more details see the full instructions at: https://www.instructables.com/id/Ang...-Belt-Sanders/
It seems like this template could quickly and easily constructed with a simple rectangle of material trimmed to the correct angle with a properly tuned mitre saw. If there were any doubts about the accuracy of the angle, it could be confirmed with a Wixey Guage.

Am I missing something here?
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejure View Post
When you sharpen your own chisels and wood turning knives, you’ll find it necessary to set your grinder or sander support table to different angles for different tools. Of course, you’ll find it necessary to repeat the previously set angle, to avoid removing valuable steel from the tools, and to get consistent cuts.
Gotta disagree on that one. When I had a lathe, I sharpened my lathe tools on my belt sander, just trying to keep the edge close to factory. Chisels, the same way. Been doing this for something over 20 years, with no issues. Originally got the idea from reading about one of the world famous furniture makers, he did just that, and i t's been so long ago can't recall just now who. A plane blade now, does need to be exact, my reasoning for that is, the blade always cuts at the same angle. Chisels and lathe tools however are at a slightly different angle for each cut. So even if the blade angles are at the exact same angle as the factory made them, the cuts are going to be sightly different each time. A case of, close enough is good enough. As long as the front of the chisel is square, or very close to it, should be no problems at all. Saves loads of time resharpening. I first started with a cheap, very cheap, set of HF tools, when I first got my lathe. Figured I'd practice with them until they wore out , then upgrade. They never did wear out, they worked great, and finally sold my lathe. They did dull quicker than a quality set would have I believe, but it only took a few seconds on the belt sander, and good to go.

Yes, I'm sure a load of you will disagree on this, but it works just fine for me, and I will continue doing it. Works on pocket knives too.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
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Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.

Last edited by JOAT; 02-14-2018 at 02:02 PM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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jbullockusanet, re "am I missing something here": Probably [insert knee slap]

Don't know how long you've been making sawdust, but a lot of folks are just getting started. For them, it might be a bit like you trying to do some of the things I do that you've never done (or versa visa) - those things can seem more daunting than they really are, the first time around. That's where sites like this come in- people like you and me offer up ideas. In this case, you didn't, but I did. Though I offered a few ways of getting the job done and did mention using the miter, I didn't add the additional ten more pages of other how to methods.

Now that I've inspired you to respond, this is your opportunity to elaborate for those who don't know how to cut small pieces on a miter, without endangering their fingers.
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The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.

Last edited by Dejure; 02-14-2018 at 04:58 PM.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Been there, done that. In fact, even with these, still doing that Joat. For example, every time I run one of my lathes, I turn to the belt sander to do a one second touch up free hand.

However, like most here, I like to improve on things from time to time. I found these, often, allow me to do what you and I have been doing for decades quicker, easier and more accurately. Since you've played with lathes, you know a gouge angle which works for you may not work for me. These make setting up to re-profile the edge from, for example, 35 to 40 degrees, a lot easier.

Too, they are handy for other uses, like setting up to cut the diamonds you need to make for the 3-D flooring, cutting blocks and so on. See Angle Jig for 3D & Other Angles - by Kelly @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community for the angle cutting jig I made for my bandsaw, for example.

The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejure View Post
jbullockusanet, re "am I missing something here": Probably [insert knee slap]

Don't know how long you've been making sawdust, but a lot of folks are just getting started. For them, it might be a bit like you trying to do some of the things I do that you've never done (or versa visa) - those things can seem more daunting than they really are, the first time around. That's where sites like this come in- people like you and me offer up ideas. In this case, you didn't, but I did. Though I offered a few ways of getting the job done and did mention using the miter, I didn't add the additional ten more pages of other how to methods.

Now that I've inspired you to respond, this is your opportunity to elaborate for those who don't know how to cut small pieces on a miter, without endangering their fingers.
Kelly - I know you don't need this, and jbullockusanet might not either, but for anyone who isn't aware of this technique, go to about the 45 minute make of this video. Essentially, it's a fulcrum which applies pressure to the workpiece, holding it steady without getting your fingers close to the blade. I've used this method with very small pieces of trim and felt safe doing it - my fingers were always at least 8 inches away from the blade. There is another video that is about 2 hours long, for cutting small pieces on a table saw - look up "Ted Baldwin" on Youtube.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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vchiarelli, I actually used the clamps that came with my miters a couple times in the last twenty years.

Most the time, if the piece is small, I do just like this fellow does. So I know you're right - it works. However, my forty years of experience have taught me to let the miter stop before I lift it. I quit getting routine spits after developing that habit (maybe I should have read that manual a few decades earlier).

Though it does show it in the video, when I don't like the feel of how well the fulcrum is holding a piece (e.g., just catching on the edge of the piece being cut), I raise the back of the fulcrum to about the same height as the item I'm holding.

I think Carter also made a hold down with rubber ends and I think it's worth investing in, whether you buy it or build it. I have a built one laying on the floor waiting for me to do some housekeeping.

________________
SIDE NOTE: One of the reasons I used the band saw to make my cuts is, I have to run them through the table saw, then the miter or band saw. It was just much easier to go with the bandsaw from the get go and to continue with it. Too, many of my pieces are odd shapes.

The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.

Last edited by Dejure; 02-14-2018 at 08:01 PM.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 08:04 PM
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Kelly - you couldn't be more right about letting the blade come to a stop. I've got a friend that constantly lifts the blade before it comes to a full stop and every time I see that small piece fly up I just shake my head and keep reminding him - let it stop. Not only is it safer, but you don't risk ruining your piece.

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