How to Attack Making a Ripped Dowel Inset - Router Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Question How to Attack Making a Ripped Dowel Inset

Hi all. I don't have many posts because I suffer from "Squirrel, squirrel!" complex and cycle in and out of way too many things. So I have now, uh, 3 routers, a Porter Cable I keep mounted on a table saw wing, a Bosh with a plunge base I use for hand held, and a newly purchased Makita trim router. This got longer than I'd intended, but I figured it would help to provide background.

What I'm working on is mounting a Japanese pole weapon blade in a shaft. I've done a fair amount of research on English language boards, my never that great 40 years in disuse Japanese not being up to the task of Japanese language research. Too keep the pieces straight, I've called the long one the pole, and a short piece the dowel. Even Sr. practitioners of the art admit there isn't much written. Techniques were passed master to apprentice. If you want to see a method that doesn't work, Forged in Fire, Season 3, episode 14, The Naginata. The armorer tried end drilling the pole and it left way too much slack around the tang. Catastrophic failure. As good as Mr. Doug Marcaida may be, he didn't use a naginata strike technique from any school I'm familiar with.

I've figured out that the most common method is to rip the pole off center the thickness of the tang to a, pick your length, longer than the blade tang. A dowel is ripped full length the same and the larger piece is used to account for the kerf. Then the tang is inset into the pole and and the dowel worked down to match the pole with the tang inset into it. Traditional arms would then have one of several methods used to secure the two pieces together. From bronze bands to wet rattan that shrinks in place. I'm working with 1-11/16" hickory and ash poles to be sanded down later to a teardrop profile.

I've done my first rehearsal with the hickory by making a sacrificial sled, sadly I didn't note where I found the technique, to hold the dowel/pole to rip on the table saw and cross cut out the piece with a hand saw. Cut too deep, but I know there are many practice pieces still to come. I then hand chiseled, after considerable time spend sharpening and polishing my chisels, and then more, the inset for the tang. Doing hickory by hand is interesting . . .

OK, so with that background, "if" you were to think of a power tool method to try to speed up waste removal, thoughts? I've thought of using a Forster bit to take out most of the waste or putting the dowel in a planing type jig with a template to remove most of the waste. Ideas?

Thanks anyone and everyone for ideas and input. It all gets passed forward in my basic bicycle maintenance classes I teach as a volunteer. Over 100 students to date. Or to anyone else with interest in making an ebu.

Ron
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 04:42 PM
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do the bore w/ a tapered drill bit 1st...
then cut the flat w/ a TS and dado blade...
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This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 05:19 PM
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That makes sense, Stick.
Mind you, i doubt you'll find tapered drill bits at the Big Box stores; Lee Valley maybe?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 05:49 PM
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machine shop supply...
Rocklers...
Woodcraft..

set up a V block...
set up for a stationary horizontal bore...
push the dowel onto the bit...

use a tapered end mill if the angle to the dangle and length is oddball...
https://www.travers.com/search.aspx?...d%20end%20mill

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 07:29 PM
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A V point bit in a jig that is angled downward towards the tip of the pole. As you rout it gets progressively deeper and wider. Same idea as CMT's router carver bit https://www.amazon.ca/CMT-RCS-BIT-Ro...SIN=B0184XTGIQ and the templates for it CMT 3D Router Carver Templates The openings in the templates get wider and smaller and the line depth and width changes accordingly. Of course the CMT carver bit would also do the job without angling the jig. You'd just need to widen the gap in the template.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Stick, as you noted the possibility
Quote:
the angle to the dangle and length is oddball...
is a very true statement.

The best one can hope for is quicker waste removal. The blades are all hand forged, often the tang is almost the length of the blade, with a taper in thickness (~ 9/32" to ~ 1/8") and width (1/4" over 11), and where one side generally isn't a mirror of the other, and has a curve. One side of the blade I'm working with is generally flat on one side, with a ~ 5/8" flat on the back side of the blade and a ~ 3/8" taper to the cutting edge side of the tang. That narrows down to ~ 3/8" X 3/8" at the end.

So many good suggestions. The old engineering challenge |Good|Quick|Cheap| pick any two . . . I have a 10ER ShopSmith and quite a few "extra" pieces I purchased with several ideas in the back of my head but later set aside. However I could use it as a horizontal drill as I could brace the pole. "But" bit drift over 11" for this blade, and possibly over 20" for the next is a concern. Thoughts?

I've thought of making a template for each tang out of hardboard. But couldn't puzzle out what to do for a follower. Check knew right off with the CMT bit. I'm thinking I can easily make a follower for a 1/4" chamfer or 1/2" radius bit. I could recess the face next to the bit to get the follower right down on the top of the cutting edge.

Stick gave me another thought. Maybe it's time to finish putting the mill back together and put the pole on vee blocks. . . . probably the most accurate and possibly safest. I do wonder about tear out . . . Stick, thanks much for the link, looks like a good company to do business with.

Last edited by Shiseiji; 12-18-2018 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Clear up language.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 02:01 PM
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dimension your drawing if you would please...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Stick, I will, "but" each hand forged blade is different. I've not put any time into learning Sketchup, always too many more pressing desires. There are other vector programs I can put something together in, but I can't promise quick and good . . .

Ron
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quick and crude . . .
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 06:55 PM
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sloped V block for the long slope...
chamfer bit for the kants...
but are kants actually full chamfers???




This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
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