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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MEBCWD View Post
Actually, I like Charles' idea of in his first post "just do a saddle type joint". Lots of glue area and the cross member ends will be longer.
This is a stool with four legs, so a saddle joint probably isn't appropriate. This means there will need to be two mortises in each leg. Given that, I'd make the legs nice and thick at the top and move the cross piece (whatever that's called) and move it closer to the edge of the leg. It also suggests making a longer tennon, or even overlapping them, or drilling and placing a couple of dowels through the joint to reinforce it. Hide the dowels on the inside. And really good glue.

If necessary, he could taper the legs to give them a lighter look.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.

Last edited by DesertRatTom; 01-24-2019 at 02:03 AM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 02:33 AM
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The saddle joint is what was typically used in sash window and door construction. Rather than leave a little bit of short grain wood (as Tage Frid called it in the 1st book he published) which has very little strength, just go ahead and mill the mortise all the way through the end which vastly increases the glue area. This essentially creates a very long groove for a very long and wide mating tongue. Doweling it increases the racking strength. One of the issues here is modern glues. Yellow glues and the Titebond glues (1, 2, and 3) all seem to glue with hard, inflexible glue lines. Traditionally, from what I've read, glues were hide based glues which would stretch before they fractured. Hide glues are water soluble and have very short open times which make them hard to use. Which is why woodworkers have moved away from them. But from my experience with very old furniture they still outperform. Weldbond is one of the only modern glues that still has some stretch to it. It might work with that angled tenon approach but I wouldn't expect one of the other glues to survive that long. They tend to fracture over time as they get brittle. With the horizontal tenon a large portion of the force is straight downward on the wood at the bottom of the mortise. The rest of the force is torque which has to shear the fairly large glue line between the parts. But with the angled tenon there is a component of the force on the joint that is downward not against the wood of the mortise. So now the glue has to hold what the wood is holding in the other scenario.

Some consideration has to be given with what is my most likely method for success with what I have to work with and what my skill set is. Certainly a couple of dowels or so through the mortise and tenon assembly will help with that if you aren't certain that what you've done so far is good enough. There isn't always an absolute answer.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.

Last edited by Cherryville Chuck; 01-24-2019 at 02:36 AM.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 11:58 AM
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I'm looking at the fact that the legs will be splayed at the 10-degree angle both ways and I would be mitering the legs at the corners so the saddle joint ends would be inside the joint and not show from the outside of the joint. I would also splint the mitered legs to reinforce that joint.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Default Step Stool Plans

Thank you all for your experienced opinions. As I said, I'm new to MT jointing. The explosion view of a folding step stool might give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. This is a fairly old plan that maybe some of you have run across in the past. (it's from a blog called "The sorted details") The plans are just pictures and dimensions. So I was confused on why the side rails attached with 2 mortises. Then I realized something basic that I didn't know about: the floating or loose tenon. However I played with the Trend MT Jig and was able to make pretty good straight aligned tenons for the side rails. The mortises were a different story because the jig did not allow me to tilt 10 degrees on the bottom support rail. So I think I will make these mortises using my drill press that tilts. I'll try to eventually post an end result.

Thanks again all.

Eric
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 11:56 AM
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a blind joint would be extremely strong and easy to do..

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