Any Interest in Designing a Router Lathe? - Router Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2012, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
n6vc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Jon
Posts: 71
 
Default Any Interest in Designing a Router Lathe?

After reading through and looking at drawings and videos of different router lathes, I think as a group we can design a better mousetrap.
The first thing is to develop a wist list. These are a few of mine:
1. Turn 6' long spindles
2. Use back gears from a metal lathe
3. Use lead screws for the X, Y and Z axis
4. Be able to turn tapers
5. Do decorative spiral cuts
6. Use sprocket and chain to transmit power to the headstock.
7. Use teflon bearing surface for the cross slide.
I already have some general concepts in mind. Back gears from a metal lathe are cheap and eliminate the need to figure the pitch diameters and gear tooth design. They would also make it possible to design the feeds and speeds in a compact configuration. Long distance transmission of power would come from chains and sprockets. Again cheap and available. The "Y" axis adjustment can be controlled using the sprocket and chain.
The headstock should have as much distance between support bearings as possible. The bearings can be bushings since rotational speed is very slow. One big plus to this is that oval turnings can be done safely. Although designing the headstock to use chucks is possible, this would add a lot of expense to the project.
The tailstock will need to adjust in height for turning tapers.
I have started drawings to present to the group.
Your thoughts would be invaluable, if there is any interest.

Jon, N6VC/5
Life Member DAV
Life Member ARRL
n6vc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2012, 07:22 AM
Registered User
 
neville9999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Australia
First Name: Neville
Posts: 1,838
 
Send a message via Yahoo to neville9999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n6vc View Post
After reading through and looking at drawings and videos of different router lathes, I think as a group we can design a better mousetrap.
The first thing is to develop a wist list. These are a few of mine:
1. Turn 6' long spindles
2. Use back gears from a metal lathe
3. Use lead screws for the X, Y and Z axis
4. Be able to turn tapers
5. Do decorative spiral cuts
6. Use sprocket and chain to transmit power to the headstock.
7. Use teflon bearing surface for the cross slide.
I already have some general concepts in mind. Back gears from a metal lathe are cheap and eliminate the need to figure the pitch diameters and gear tooth design. They would also make it possible to design the feeds and speeds in a compact configuration. Long distance transmission of power would come from chains and sprockets. Again cheap and available. The "Y" axis adjustment can be controlled using the sprocket and chain.
The headstock should have as much distance between support bearings as possible. The bearings can be bushings since rotational speed is very slow. One big plus to this is that oval turnings can be done safely. Although designing the headstock to use chucks is possible, this would add a lot of expense to the project.
The tailstock will need to adjust in height for turning tapers.
I have started drawings to present to the group.
Your thoughts would be invaluable, if there is any interest.
Have a look at the "Router Turning" Thread by "Dick in ia". It is in Jigs and Fixtures, there are pages and pages about Router Lathes there, and the answer is, "Yes", there are a few of us making Router Lathes and you are free to join the conversation. NGM
neville9999 is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2012, 05:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: United States
First Name: Browne
Posts: 99
 
Default

I also think that Dick's router lathe would be a great starting point. Why invent the wheel twice when we only need to improve it?

What would be the advantage to using chains and sprockets over wood gears?

Back gear could be accomplished with a planetary gear set. I would be glad to assist you , if necessary, in the design. With two planetary sets you could have three speeds and a very low reverse.
elrodqfudp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2012, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
n6vc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Jon
Posts: 71
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elrodqfudp View Post
I also think that Dick's router lathe would be a great starting point. Why invent the wheel twice when we only need to improve it?

What would be the advantage to using chains and sprockets over wood gears?

Back gear could be accomplished with a planetary gear set. I would be glad to assist you , if necessary, in the design. With two planetary sets you could have three speeds and a very low reverse.
I agree that Dick's lathe makes a terrific starting point! What I am trying to accomplish is developing a set of plans that anyone can use to build their own lathe without the intricacies of cutting wooden gears.
I didn't think about using transmission parts. That's a great idea! An old powerglide transmission could provide the planetary gearset.
One design goal is that actual metal working be kept to hacksaw and drills.
I'll have the base plans pretty quick that can begin the critique.

Jon, N6VC/5
Life Member DAV
Life Member ARRL
n6vc is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2012, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
n6vc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Jon
Posts: 71
 
Default

Here is the Router Lathe Base. Let me know your thoughts and corrections.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf LatheBed.pdf (286.6 KB, 174 views)

Jon, N6VC/5
Life Member DAV
Life Member ARRL
n6vc is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 09:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Australia
First Name: Clemo
Posts: 34
 
Default There is another way.

Thank you Jon for starting this second Router Turning thread. There is a reason for "redesigning the wheel", if there is another wheel, and there is in this case.

I intend writing two posts with photos, firstly on the proprietry lathe that I have, sold round the world under different names and without any gears. Then on the small DIY lathe I am developing right now.

I'm told by others that the quality of this lathe is poor, the indexing is limited, and the spiral work is inconsistent.

In my experience, I have turned legs for a billiard table and I have turned billiard cues consistently and reliably. I have turned barley twist, right and left hand. I have turned 2, 3, 4 and 5 flute hollow helixes to outside diameters between 60mm to 140mm.

The chuck is 120mm I.D. but the router bridge permits a throw of 70mm, giving a max diameter for work of 150mm (6"). The working bed is 1100mm or 3'-6". I see Jon that you suggest working to 6'. With my lathe I can turn a very good (round) tennon on the end of one piece and I can drill a good hole dead centre in the next. So a 7ft rest (cowboy stick) for a billiard table set, made in three parts and glued, with two 3" deep mortise & tennon joints works fine. Similarly, a mortise & tennon the the middle of a 6' standatd lamp is invisible, all done on a 3'-6" lathe.

The spiral turning process relies on a wire cable passing round a pulley at the chuck. My lathe has three pulleys giving 200mm (8"), 150mm (6") and 130mm (5") pitch spirals. Hollow helixes need longer pitches than barley twist for the same O.D. but in practice, any of this work just looks great. I have thought long and hard about making this lathe chain drive, incorpotating a pushbike cluster to give 8 or 10 pitches, and managing a reduction in the rightangle drive. The importand thing is positive sprocketing or gearing on the chuck and no stretch along the track.

All that is a lot of engineering. When you see my DIY lathe in the next post you will see that it uses chain in this application. I'm now leaning toward a multi pulley wheel on this lathe driving a loop of small chain in lieu of the wire cable. I have made chain drives before (for clocks) and think that I can do it using kitchen cutting board material. Very much a thought in progress. The attraction of chain in this situation is that I can get positive grip on very small diameter pulleys, without relying on tension to deform a bowden cable wire and pull it tight onto a pulley. And small diameter pulleys give short pitches. A second attraction is the chance to play with variable pitch screws, but you will have to wait for next post for that.

Oh, and I have set it up as a copy lathe as well. A bit of a challenge but 30 turned posts like a balistrade. Needs work though. The shortfall in that case (and perhaps this lathe) is that the cutting occurs on the end of the router bit, the bit plunging into the work. On my DIY, the router bit does copy (& round turning) work by cutting on the side of the bit. This gives a much better finish from the lathe, requireing much less sanding to get a high gloss polish. But, that said, there are ways of getting round that problem also.

Check out the pictures.

And just a paragraph on DIY geared lathes. I have cut and lapped gears before. I have nothing but admiration for those that have built any wooden geared machines. As for me, if I cut wooden gears it will be for wooden clocks and I'll hang them on walls for people to marvel at. There are less gears in a wooden clock than there are in a lathe if you manage pitch with cog sets, and especially if you plan on reversing. There are years of work in some of the suggestions I have read in the other post. That's not to say that anyone shouldn't start building their dream. But, for me, there is another way. I've done it, I'm doing it. Before getting into that big a project, have a look at these pics and think carefully, do you want to make things or do you just want to build a lathe? A bit negative, I supose, but thats my opinion.

Tks 4 reading,
C ya,
Clemo.

Don't teach me, for I may not learn, share with me, that we both may learn.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Blue Lathe.JPG
Views:	171
Size:	134.0 KB
ID:	55769  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Big 4 Jaw Chuck.JPG
Views:	126
Size:	162.7 KB
ID:	55770  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Cable Argmnt.JPG
Views:	122
Size:	133.7 KB
ID:	55771  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Index Set Up.JPG
Views:	116
Size:	118.3 KB
ID:	55772  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Triple helix.JPG
Views:	114
Size:	77.9 KB
ID:	55776  

Click image for larger version

Name:	just playing.JPG
Views:	99
Size:	71.7 KB
ID:	55777  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Short pitch flutes.JPG
Views:	106
Size:	79.4 KB
ID:	55778  

Clemo is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 10:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Australia
First Name: Clemo
Posts: 34
 
Default Part 2, the DIY router lathe.

I make handles for crochet hooks, I've posted in the past 'bout them.

I make them on the DIY router lathe shown below.

I don't use a router, I use Dremel bits in the handle of a Dremel flex drive. The Dremel itself hangs on a stand on the bench. The hand piece is mounted in an adjustable tool holder, which runs along a square track. The track pivots at the far end to bring the tool into and away from the work.

The work is held in a chuck of my own devising. Its a 50mm (2") pipe end cap, partially filled with resin. There is a 5/16" tapped hole through the centre and the resin provides extra thickness for the threaded rod with lock nuts front and back. Around the perimiter of the pipe end cap I have drilled and tapped 6 holes giving either a 4 jaw (0, 90, 18, 270degrees) or a 3 jaw chuck (0, 120, 240degrees). The chuck is carried on a piece of 5/16" threaded rod which passes through the headstock and is held by bearings front and rear. The bearings sit just in carefully drilled holes.

The tailstock is a similay arrangement but it slides on the "bed" which is housed into a good slab.

Taking square stock to round I get best results using the "side" of the router bit across the top of the work. Make the pass, turn the work, next pass, turn etc.

I intend setting up the copy track to use the router bit in this fashion. And I get perfect, predictable tapers by wedging the tailstock end of the base slab with a chisel. (I tend use vernier calipers and micrometers a lot.) I'll make milk bottle bolts for that one day, but for now its a chisel.

For splines I attach a wheel with a chain behind the headstock. The chain turns then goes along to the tool holder. As I push the tool holder with one hand I keep tension on the chuck with the other. I have a method of indexing using a block against the bolts through the chuck which gives me three or four flutes.

Straight flutes are easy. I set up the tool on the centre line then slide the tool carrier along its rail, advancing the rail closer to the work each pass till I get the depth I want.

With my crochet hook handles weight, balance, finish and size are important. I'm working between 12mm and about 18mm O.D. and a bit longer than a pensil. I make them hollow for weight saving, then cut flutes in the back part to get the balance. And the flutes, especially the through and hollow helixes really look good.

And finally, I'm experimenting with variable pitch helixes. There is a pic below with the chain wheel drilled off centre. A flute goes out of sight by 150degrees of rotation. So, by drilling the wheel way off centre the flutes have a gentle kind of wave in them. Still developing that stuff, but, if you want to do it with gears I'll find the web site for square gears for you.

Tks 4 reading,
C ya
Clemo.

Don't teach me for I may not learn, share with me, that we both may learn.

Its very late, I'll edit this another time.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	My Dremel Lathe.JPG
Views:	191
Size:	83.4 KB
ID:	55787  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Chuck3J.JPG
Views:	107
Size:	97.9 KB
ID:	55788  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Chain Dr 1.JPG
Views:	126
Size:	123.4 KB
ID:	55789  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Dremel.JPG
Views:	96
Size:	78.2 KB
ID:	55790  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Flutes.JPG
Views:	99
Size:	131.7 KB
ID:	55791  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P9280113.JPG
Views:	96
Size:	81.0 KB
ID:	55792  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Constant Pitch.JPG
Views:	95
Size:	129.6 KB
ID:	55793  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P8140065.JPG
Views:	95
Size:	75.8 KB
ID:	55794  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P9030086.JPG
Views:	97
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	55795  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Tool Carrier.JPG
Views:	104
Size:	116.9 KB
ID:	55796  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Variable Chain.JPG
Views:	122
Size:	157.9 KB
ID:	55797  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Tailstock 2.JPG
Views:	102
Size:	86.9 KB
ID:	55798  

Click image for larger version

Name:	R-Bit for turning.JPG
Views:	128
Size:	96.3 KB
ID:	55799  


Don't teach me, for I may not learn, share with me, that way we both may learn.

Last edited by Clemo; 10-17-2012 at 10:33 AM.
Clemo is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
n6vc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Jon
Posts: 71
 
Default

Hi Clemo,
Lots of great ideas here. I especially like your home made chucks!
On your chain drive, is there a pin to give a positive pull on the dremel slide? I wouldn't think there would be enough contact on the drum to give a positive pull.

Jon, N6VC/5
Life Member DAV
Life Member ARRL
n6vc is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 12:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Australia
First Name: Clemo
Posts: 34
 
Default

If you look at the variable pitch chain pic, one end of the chain is screwed to the white poly wheel. There is a hook on the tool holder. The chain is fixed to the white wheel.

Tks
C ya.

Don't teach me, for I may not learn, share with me, that way we both may learn.
Clemo is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-21-2012, 06:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Bruce
Posts: 89
 
Default

Concerning chains instead of gears to provide different ratios. Bicycle chains are not good candidates because you cannot turn corners (such as converting linear movement into rotational movement). My suggestion is to use ball chains. I located a supplier of ball chains that could supply ball chains made of stainless steel with 1/4 inch diameter balls. This chain has a tensile strength of 175 pounds, which would be strong enough to provide a positive drive.

The chain that Clemo is using on his crochet hook machine is able to turn a corner and convert linear movement into rotational movement, but does not provide a means for a positive toothed drive, which would be necessary for different gear ratios.

I would suggest a ball chain that would provide a positive drive, similar to gear teeth, and yet turn corners and change linear movement into rotational movement. Also, could provide different ratios by making pulleys out of plastic and having the chain groove incorporate spherical indentations for the individual balls to locate in, thus providing a means for ratios, similar to gear teeth.

Last edited by brucenelson; 10-21-2012 at 06:48 PM.
brucenelson is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Intro and question john spies New Member Introductions 20 12-08-2018 12:08 PM
First Benchtop Router Table, get a plate or go bare? silentblackhat Table-mounted Routing 38 05-30-2012 03:30 AM
Wodd Lathe router jig Kas2401 Jigs and Fixtures 3 03-26-2012 02:53 AM
Hello DPugmire New Member Introductions 5 11-08-2010 07:29 AM
Old Glossary Terms Mark Site Help and Suggestions 0 10-14-2008 02:30 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome