Dust Collection - Alternative to Blast Gates - Router Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-17-2016, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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Default Dust Collection - Alternative to Blast Gates

I have a box of metal and plastic blast gates for four inch hose. I bought them to set up a dust collection systems for my three dust collectors.

I started with the three three horse, four bag collector, which collected dust and debris from: 1) a sanding station; 2) a lunch box planer; 3) an eight inch jointer; 4) a cabinet saw with an over-arm collector and a cabinet port; 5) the lathe station; and, 6) the floor vacuum.

Between the four bag collector and the pick-ups is a Super Dust Deputy, with a six inch line to the collector. Connecting each item to the cyclone via Y's resulted in a notable drop in efficiency, even with the gates for all but the tool being used closed .

On a whim, I just terminated a hose from each pieces of equipment at the collector and abandoned the Y's and gates. Instead of opening the gate for the piece of equipment I was going to use and closing the one I'd used previously, I unplugged the hose I'd been using and plugged in the one I was going to use. It took about the same time and effort as opening and closing gates, but resulted in less drop.

My horse and a half handles: 1) the band saw; 2) the spindle sander; and, 3) the drum-disk sander.

For the horse and half, I still have two gates on the collectors ports. One controls the air flow from the band saw and the other the hoses for the other items, so I still have to work with two gates and swap between two hoses for the sanders.

In the end, this system works far better for me. Soon, I'll take a little time out and make a rack for the hose ends, at the collector(s), to make it a little easier to grab them for swaps.
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The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-17-2016, 03:51 PM
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Kelly this is a very interesting concept . I'm debating to put a kibosh on the blast gates now and simply having individual hoses with dust right quick connectors on them that I can plug in as I need .
Glad I seen this

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 12:26 PM
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I like this idea. In my shop I just run a flex hose from my preseparator to the equipment. The Rockler Dust Right quick connect fittings work pretty well. Seems to work OK but it is kind of a PITA if I switch back and forth a bunch. I really want to relocate the DC outside the shop area (more room, less noise and less dust in the air) and have blast gates but the whole pressure loss issue has been giving me pause.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBa View Post
I like this idea. In my shop I just run a flex hose from my preseparator to the equipment. The Rockler Dust Right quick connect fittings work pretty well. Seems to work OK but it is kind of a PITA if I switch back and forth a bunch. I really want to relocate the DC outside the shop area (more room, less noise and less dust in the air) and have blast gates but the whole pressure loss issue has been giving me pause.
I'm, with you, I have my 3hp dust collector/cyclone outside the shop in a sound proof room.
I don't think I would like to swap hoses every time I make a cut on different machines. That would get old fast. I agree that there is some loss around the blast gates, but my system seems to handle it. In fact some times additional air helps keep dust in suspension when using a small port to collect dust. Makeup air is not a bad thing.
But when I am building something and have my mind on what I am doing, I would probably loose concentration swapping hoses and I would opt to just not turn on the dust collector. Just my opinion for what it is worth,

Herb
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Stoops View Post
I'm, with you, I have my 3hp dust collector/cyclone outside the shop in a sound proof room.
I don't think I would like to swap hoses every time I make a cut on different machines. That would get old fast. I agree that there is some loss around the blast gates, but my system seems to handle it. In fact some times additional air helps keep dust in suspension when using a small port to collect dust. Makeup air is not a bad thing.
But when I am building something and have my mind on what I am doing, I would probably loose concentration swapping hoses and I would opt to just not turn on the dust collector. Just my opinion for what it is worth,

Herb
Im agree with that.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Stoops View Post
I'm, with you, I have my 3hp dust collector/cyclone outside the shop in a sound proof room.
I don't think I would like to swap hoses every time I make a cut on different machines. That would get old fast. I agree that there is some loss around the blast gates, but my system seems to handle it. In fact some times additional air helps keep dust in suspension when using a small port to collect dust. Makeup air is not a bad thing.
But when I am building something and have my mind on what I am doing, I would probably loose concentration swapping hoses and I would opt to just not turn on the dust collector. Just my opinion for what it is worth,

Herb
It's not too bad in general but when I just need to make a quick little cut, I don't bother with the DC. Usually, I hook it back up to the TS which is where I would skip DC if not connected.

Measure twice, cut once and CROSS OUT THE WRONG MARKS.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 02:23 PM
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It looks like you have the blast gates at the equipment end of each run?
if so, thats part of your problem. The air in those blocked off tubes is swirling and slowing down air flow.

If you run a pipe around the workshop, and put a blast gate at each branch before running the tube on to the equipment, then the swirl effect will be considerable reduced.
I also had a Y joint on one run but did away with it because it definitely reduced performance.

Also, blast gates (especially plastic ones) tend to jam with dust getting caught at the rear of the slide, stopping each slide from fully closing. I had this problem with mine from a router table. All the other gates worked fine, but the router table gate just keeps filling up and wont close properly causing suction loss when operating other stuff.

I havent found a permanent answer yet, But I cleaned the gate out so it closed fully. Then made a thick magic marker line across the gate with it almost closed. Closed the gate and then rubbed off the visible blue marker.
Now when the gate starts to block and the slide wont go fully home, i can see the blue line appearing and know its time for maintenance.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Not certain who you're replying to, but you don't see gates at all my equipment, aside from the 1-1/2 horse unit, to switch between the band saw and the sanders.

(correction, there is a gate at the Excalibur, to shut it off when not using the over-arm collector).


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnybob View Post
It looks like you have the blast gates at the equipment end of each run?
if so, thats part of your problem. The air in those blocked off tubes is swirling and slowing down air flow.

If you run a pipe around the workshop, and put a blast gate at each branch before running the tube on to the equipment, then the swirl effect will be considerable reduced.
I also had a Y joint on one run but did away with it because it definitely reduced performance.

Also, blast gates (especially plastic ones) tend to jam with dust getting caught at the rear of the slide, stopping each slide from fully closing. I had this problem with mine from a router table. All the other gates worked fine, but the router table gate just keeps filling up and wont close properly causing suction loss when operating other stuff.

I havent found a permanent answer yet, But I cleaned the gate out so it closed fully. Then made a thick magic marker line across the gate with it almost closed. Closed the gate and then rubbed off the visible blue marker.
Now when the gate starts to block and the slide wont go fully home, i can see the blue line appearing and know its time for maintenance.

The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Keep in mind, this is an ALTERNATIVE and works better than gates, in many instances.

My sanders are up against a wall. Other pieces of equipment are back to back, so, other issues aside, opening and closing a gate at the pieces of equipment is impractical.

Switching is done at the cyclone, or at the collector, depending on which one of the three collectors is being taxed.

Like most people's, my collectors are in the shop, so going to Cambodia to switch the hoses at the unit isn't necessary. Too, keep in mind, most of us are not running borderline commercial units [or better] with eight or ten inch lines branching to smaller lines (I sold my big cyclone because they are not engineered to be turned off and on repeatedly, and I no longer depend on my shop for a living, so my collectors get turned off and on several times a day).

As an example of the use of my three horse, it sits to your back, when standing at the jointer, which is to the right side of the cabinet saw. A six inch line goes from it, overhead, to the cyclone. At the cyclone are the terminations for the two lines to the saw, a line to the jointer, a line for the lathe, a line for the sanding station and one for the planer. I can swap hoses in the same time you can close one gate and open another. (I just use simple, plastic terminations on the end of each hose and they just press on).

To use gates REQUIRES Y's, each of which compromises efficiency. Of course, the gates contribute to some degree or other too. As I stated before, I used a single line and Y's, as is standard. Obviously, a gate had to be installed at each Y (not at the equipment). The farther the system progressed, the more the efficiency dropped. Installing [smaller] spiral piping would have improved performance, but come on, it's a real world out there and my money tree got chopped down, others never grew one.

The improvement difference is enough I vacuum the floor [in about 1/25th the time a standard vacuum would (give or take a bunch of tenths).

P.S. I have one plastic gate, but have never used it, so was unaware they were bad choices for the reason stated. I bought all metal ones because I wanted mileage.

The reason I have what you want is, I never lent it out before.

Scraps are a myth.

Last edited by Dejure; 01-18-2016 at 09:32 PM.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 09:33 PM
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I havent found a permanent answer yet, But I cleaned the gate out so it closed fully. Then made a thick magic marker line across the gate with it almost closed. Closed the gate and then rubbed off the visible blue marker.
Now when the gate starts to block and the slide wont go fully home, i can see the blue line appearing and know its time for maintenance.[/QUOTE]

I have seen where some guys drill a very small hole in the back of the gate in the slot where the gate slides into and the air being sucked into this hole keeps the slot clean from debris.

Herb
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