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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Default Electric cars

I am sure this is the math the Ontario government can understand, another way to justify jacking our hydro bill to pay for all the required upgrades hmm!

Finally somebody tells the truth - can you imagine the upheaval in Hydro One when these things become too popular

Things people don't know about electric cars. Very interesting.
Subject: Elec. Car Operating Cost
At a neighborhood bbq I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.
The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles .. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.


If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following:
Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including
charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.
Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000........So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....

Makes sense doesn't it?

Harry



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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 09:07 AM
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More smoke and mirrors by the government. Recently I heard some municipalities in the USA are considering a fee for using solar or wind to offset electricity charges for residential users.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits". Albert Einstein
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 09:34 AM
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When I went looking for the original copy of this* I discovered it's been scrubbed from the 'net.
* Irish Times: Phasing out of fossil-fuel cars could result in dirtier power stations

The governmentís goal to replace petrol and diesel cars with those powered by electricity could see the construction of so-called open-cycle gas stations, said Carsten Poppinga, senior vice president of trading and origination at Statkraft, the Norwegian utility that operates hydro power plants and wind farms across the UK. Such units can keep the grid from buckling from the strain of people charging cars in peak demand periods. The catch? While the plants can start generating power almost instantly, they donít recycle waste heat, making them emit more greenhouses per megawatt than the combined-cycle stations that comprise the largest share of the UKís daily power output. Britain may have no choice but to use the less environmentally friendly option, though. With little spare generation capacity, the nation is vulnerable to power shortages, particularly on cold, winter days when wind and solar energy may be in short supply.


Here in BC we're currently (no pun intended) paying $.086/kWh for the first 1354kWhs, and $.129/kWh for the balance of our monthly usage.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 09:35 AM
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Heh...that's in Cdn$$$...your mileage may vary.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 10:59 AM
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My middle son and his wife own Chevy Volt cars. Both cars were bought as "Lease Trade-Ins" 2-3 years old, but both 2 year old models. They are both getting 38-40 miles on a battery charge and both he and his wife work within the 40 mile range of the batteries. The companies where they work (in opposite directions from home) both have installed electric car charging stations that offer FREE charging. So my son and his wife are now making daily use of these stations, which have been going relatively unused until now. The charging station will recharge the Chevy Volt battery in about 2 1/2 hours, so if others wish to begin using it, 3 cars could be charged in one work shift, if the car owners can break free from their jobs long enough to make the switch. These chargers and the special larger charger at my son's home will charge the Chevy Volt battery in about 2 1/2 hours. The charger that is in each Chevy Volt takes 6-8 hours to charge the battery, but plugs into a standard 120 volt wall outlet.

So my son and his wife are charging their cars using the large charger at home and then using the FREE chargers at work.The only time that the Chevy Volt gas motor starts is when either car needs to be driven more than about 40 miles between charges. The Chevy Volt cars also put energy back into the battery when going down hill or when hard braking, because the Chevy Volt uses a dynamic braking system, so less wear on the brake shoes and less energy wasted.

So far my son is still saying that the fuel savings for both of them, even when including the electric power being used by the larger home charger, is enough to make their car payments every month. His workshop is on a separate electric meter, and up until the big charger was installed, he was paying the minimum electric bill for his shop every month because of so little electric usage, so the present electric bill for his shop is almost entirely the cost of charging the two Chevy Volts. I haven't yet found out the monthly amount.

I think that if both had to pay to charge their cars at work that it wouldn't be a good deal for them, but right now (past 2 months) they seem to be commuting to and from work at a savings, and really enjoying their cars. I'm quite certain that as soon as a significant number of people buy electric cars and begin charging them at work, that the companies will be charging their employees to charge the cars. The politicians seem to have pushed to have these charging stations placed in parking lots and highway rest areas, offering FREE charging now to get people to buy electric cars, but as soon as the usage of these chargers goes up, they aren't going to offer it FREE anymore.

This is just my observations and information provided by my son, so far and I'm not about to go converting my own vehicle fleet over to electric yet. With my EE background, I'm well aware of the infrastructure change that would be necessary to supply every home with enough electricity to recharge everyone's electric car every night. Electric cars pollute too, just not out the tail pipe. It comes out of a huge smoke stack on the other side of town at the power station instead

As I learn more about my son's experiences, I'll try to pass them on.

Charley.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 11:01 AM
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Harry , we've been led to believe that cell phone chargers that are being left plugged into the wall without the cell phone actually being plugged into the charger , is over taxing the electrical grid and causing a 15% increase on average to everyone's rates .

So riddle me this, if these cell phone chargers left plugged in doing squat are a huge issue , than what the hell is going to happen when we start adopting this electric car nonsense?

The government sure contradicts itself sometimes
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 11:21 AM
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Great point, Rick!
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 12:07 PM
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https://www.google.ca/search?q=wind+...CuXEjAP8gIGQAQ
https://www.google.ca/search?q=solar...Ec-8jwOF266oBQ

They'll want us to augment existing generation with more wind and solar but those links tell the story on those. Not only is the power more costly but tax dollars are also being spent to subsidize those companies so the real cost is not necessarily clear.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 02:03 PM
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Corruption everywhere. You pays your money and gets your politician to give you a special privilage. The more money you "contribute", the more mischief you can get your politician to do on your behalf. Grease up. Things are not going to change, the greenies, corporations and politicians won't let it.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 04:02 PM
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Ah, that's not a train. It's a troll with a flashlight and a club.

Yes indeed, they always seem to forget the power station pollution. AND, it is very, very, seldom mentioned the pollution involved in making the batteries. Pollution involved in making solar panels too.

My thoughts on lessening pollution, et al, are hybrid vehicles. Not your run of the mill hybrids either. Many years ago it was common for businesses, and some homes, to have small steam plants for power. The main issue with steam is changing speed, which is also one of the reasons gas engines replaced steam. But if a steam engine runs at a steady speed, it can be very efficient. So, I think a small steam engine, running a generator, to power an electric motor, would be the way to go. Fuel, depending on what type, can be very low in pollution. There would have to be a battery in the system, for lights, and all, but one battery versus maybe ten or twenty seems like a good tradeoff to me. The only real downside I see is the time it takes for the steam plant/engine running - could be one minute, could be ten or so, depending of a number of variables. But, then the steam could be put on low heat the rest of the day, except when driving, and it could be ready to go then in basically seconds. Wouldn't work for all vehicles, but I would say it could be worked out for passenger vehicles, and not hard to do either, IF it was looked at. But too many people in the line filling their pockets to want it to happen, and the liberal idiots never even think about it.
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