Savage muzzleloader 10ML-II - Router Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Default Savage muzzleloader 10ML-II

I know we have lots of gun enthusiasts on the forum so if you own the muzzleloader in the title stop shooting it now. Savage, according to the linked article, has failed to recall this rifle or even warn it's owner's of the potential problem with them.
Gun maker’s exploding rifle leaves trail of injured hunters

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 04:57 AM
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could loan it out it...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 05:54 AM
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http://www.routerforums.com/attachme...312961&thumb=1


This muzzle loaded shotgun is far better.

Napoleonian standart .
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 07:59 AM
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Thanx CC. Interesting. Mine are all TC's.

I know CVA had some problems earlier on too.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 09:05 AM
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Interesting article. Going to be hard to counteract a expert metallurgist, though.
Ruger pistols had the firing pin in the hammer like the old Colt 1873 Peacemaker. Those who carried it put the hammer down on an empty chamber so the six shooter was a five shooter. The Colt could be fired if a spring broke by hitting the hammer with a rock. Many put a paper bill in the empty chamber for an emergency- such as a night on the town. Later, Ruger modified the pistol with a transfer bar where the trigger had to be released for the bar to drop so the next round could be fired. The hammer hit the transfer bar which then pushed the firing pin to the primer. I had one many years ago.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 01:49 PM
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Looked at the picture, read the article. And don't believe the metal just failed. I know a probably world class gunsmith, who lives in Canada. He has dealt with a lot of rifles that would up with barrels looking like that. He works with centerfire rifles, so the ones he has dealt with had one or another sort of obstruction of the bore, the rounds were reloaded with the wrong powder, the rounds were reloaded with an over charge of powder.

The muzzleloader is built to use smokeless powder. I don't care for that idea, so only use blackpowder. The shooter claims he used the regular load of 43 grains of smokeless powder. That is a healthy load, so I checked some of my references. Loads for the .458 Winchester Magnum range from 49 to 77 grains of powder - this is meant for elephant hunting. The .45-70 is from 43 to 54 grains - this is a round suitable for any North American game. The .38-55 Winchester is 22 to 35 grains - suitable for deer and bear. The .375 Winchester from 32 to 38 grains - also suitable for deer/elk/bear.

I forgot to hunt down the owner's manual for the Savage, so don't know what they recommend as powder, or how much. But if the owner does reloading, it is quite possible he used the wrong powder, and depending on the type of powder, the rifle could have been way overloaded by using the wrong powder by accident. Personally, I prefer using the same powder in all reloading, handgun, rifle, shotgun - Unique is one that can be used adequately in all 3, and there is no danger of mixing powder that way. He could even have loaded a double charge without realizing it - that was frequent during the Civil War, they even found unfired rifles with as many as five loads in them, but the shooter forgot to fire. Bottom line, I think the shooter screwed up someway, but won't admit it.

Some of the old time target shooters used to use smokeless powder in their muzzleloaders, but they didn't use a full charge. Instead they would use just a few grains of smokeless, then a full load of black powder. The small amount of smokeless was used to insure better ignition of the black powder.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 02:17 PM
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I have personally witnessed 3 handguns destroyed, all by owner error on reloading.

I'm inclined to believe the company.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 06:08 PM
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I thought that Savage discontinued the smokeless powder muzzle loader as some people put smokeless powder in BP guns.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a follow up article: Lawyer says gun maker long knew about explosion-prone... | Daily Mail Online

While it is possible that some of the problems were caused by human error, orpurposefully not following manufacturer recommendations which is not an error, 300 bulging barrels is a lot. I think most muzzleloader enthusiasts would be aware of the dangers of over powdering their weapon with smokeless as opposed to black powder. I'm not in that group and I know better. Someone forgot how many bullets or how much powder? Maybe, but 300 times isn't that likely. What is possible is that the blend of stainless used in that barrel may have work hardened and become brittle. A cousin who went through machinist school told me about a stainless alloy he worked with in school that could be drilled as long as he didn't center punch it first. If he did that it became so hard that it couldn't be drilled. The accounts I read in the first article said that in all cases the rifles had been fired several hundred times prior to failure.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 11:41 PM
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Is there data regarding how many barrels were damaged on other makes of gun?
To quote 300 as "a lot" is meaningless without other numbers to compare it to.

Does this only happen with Savage muzzleloaders? If so, only then can you blame the manufacturer.
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