To CAD or not to CAD - Router Forums
 22Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Colin
Posts: 141
 
Default To CAD or not to CAD

Hi there Fraternity.

Now I am a retired plumber of 46 years the last 20 or so as a lecturer in construction, which while teaching I found my love of all things wood. We had a huge carpentry and joinery dept with every machine and tool known to man and it was like Disney land to me.

At the same time I found my mate Norm on tv who taught me how to build things and I have every video he made.

Our Sky channels were full of building and carpentry shows and one of my favourites was This old House. But alas no longer. All I can find on my old channels is how to create a glutton free vegetarian paella. God I hate chefs. Struggling now to find anything unless you want to build a tree house or flood someoneís basement with a fish tank.

Now quite recently I purchase a new fangled smart tv which came with a range of apps, one being U Tube. I started to look for joinery videos and was delighted to find hundreds of them, most very professional and being made in American house garages.

Delighted. Now subscribed to about 20 or so and get to see them on the big screen thanks to the apps. Happy bunny.

This is where I am starting to see a trend which while very effective, in both time and material I find a little disheartening and that is the process many of the carpentry videos are taking.

The very first intro in many of these videos is you looking at a monitor where the blogger draws out their design. It is then dismantled on screen and a cutting list is prepared with all the joints and dimensions pumped out of the printer.right down to all the dimensions to create a mortise and tenon joint, no fine tuning required, follow the instructions and it will fit, donít even have to dry fit. Stage two is the blogger just following the cut instructions. Finally the assembly. No mistakes, no thought process, just efficiency. Any tricky bits are carried out on the cnc cutter. This process is what is required if you are running a business, but not a hobby.

Iím sorry I canít work that way. I need to make mistakes, make changes, frustrate myself, do a little swearing and cursing, drink multiple cups of tea, and in many cases start again. Strive to get it right. And finally enjoy the labour of hours and hours of working away to your hearts content in your workshop, surrounded by a pile of discarded cuttings, that you hopefully will find another use for. And at the end of the day I return to the house pleased as punch or frustrated as hell with progress or lack of it. Either way itís a cumulation or your efforts to produce something unique, something imagined in your mind and produced by your able hands. Not by instructions from a PC.

I donít know if itís just me and I am alone in these thoughts, but to me itís just like coming home with a flat pack of Ikea furniture and building it up. I do indulge in sketches but only to see what the item will eventually and hopefully look like and give me the scope to alter at my leisure, but when you have before you on your bench a neat pile of perfectly dimensioned and cut precision parts ready for assembly, there is no going back, no changing your mind as all the pieces fit like a perfectly joined jigsaw.

Someone out there in the fraternity put me right. Am I doing it all wrong, am I a glutton free dinosaur.

Yours
Colin
Scotland
TwoSkies57, DaninVan and jj777746 like this.
Coleve is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 08:54 PM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,840
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleve View Post
Iím sorry I canít work that way. I need to make mistakes, make changes, frustrate myself, do a little swearing and cursing, drink multiple cups of tea, and in many cases start again. Strive to get it right. And finally enjoy the labour of hours and hours of working away to your hearts content in your workshop, surrounded by a pile of discarded cuttings, that you hopefully will find another use for. And at the end of the day I return to the house pleased as punch or frustrated as hell with progress or lack of it. Either way itís a cumulation or your efforts to produce something unique, something imagined in your mind and produced by your able hands. Not by instructions from a PC.

I donít know if itís just me and I am alone in these thoughts, but to me itís just like coming home with a flat pack of Ikea furniture and building it up. I do indulge in sketches but only to see what the item will eventually and hopefully look like and give me the scope to alter at my leisure, but when you have before you on your bench a neat pile of perfectly dimensioned and cut precision parts ready for assembly, there is no going back, no changing your mind as all the pieces fit like a perfectly joined jigsaw.

Someone out there in the fraternity put me right. Am I doing it all wrong, am I a glutton free dinosaur.

Yours
Colin
Scotland
I think you're dead on Colin. That is one reason I don't work from plans, with a plan you're making what the guy who made the plan is right, not what you think is right. On the rare occasion I do work from a plan, but you can pretty much count on me changing something on it. My designs usually come from looking at pictures taking what I like from various pictures. When I get thru what I came up with might not even resemble any of the original pictures, but I created it, I'm happy. Not going to catch me with a CAD or CNC, just no fun using either. Stuff like that makes me feel like I am copying someone else's work. Think I have an example of some of my older work to give you an idea. I get bored if it isn't my own designs.

What the heck, the pictures didn't show up. Now I have to try again.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WIZARDS.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	358783  

Click image for larger version

Name:	1.6.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	81.4 KB
ID:	358787  

Attached Images
       

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.

Last edited by JOAT; 08-17-2018 at 08:58 PM.
JOAT is online now  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 09:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Country: United States
First Name: John
Posts: 4,349
 
Default

I love my CNC and tolerate the computer. However, they are just additions in the war chest of tools. I notice you have a nice shop with some neat power tools. When those came out, there were probably some of the "old timers" who scoffed at them for making things too easy. Others embraced the technology and used it to make things faster and better than before while creating new things. Same with CNC's and computer software now. Your choice.
Herb Stoops likes this.

HJ

Detroit Burbs

RoutervilleUSA on Etsy

I took the tests and retirement is the best job I'm suited for.

Now I know why old guys wear suspenders.
honesttjohn is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2018, 04:52 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Colin
Posts: 141
 
Default

Hi Theo
Thanks for the pics. Great minds think alike. Thought I was alone out there.
Coleve is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2018, 10:23 AM
Registered User
 
Bushwhacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
First Name: David
Posts: 834
 
Default

I completely agree with you Colin. I feel that if someone wants to build things with a computer and then say, "look what I built". Then that is their business and I would NEVER be one to say other wise.
I feel like some of the other guys here have said, that this thing is a new wave of carpentry and will one day be all that you can find, once the hands on tool using carpenters are all dead and gone.
My wife says that maybe one day long after we are both gone, some one will point out a piece that I built and say " look at this, and he made it by hand".
I realize that I am old school and enjoy sketching an idea out on a napkin and then adding and changing it until I end up with something that I have enjoyed building.
I have a carving of a dragon that I wanted to make into the lid of a jewelry box that I have been working on for over 2 years. I may never finish it, but maybe one day.
Some one with a CNC could have made this in just a few minutes and it would have been some thing that is completely mistake free, with no under or over cuts, no missing
claws that I inadvertently cut off with my chisel. And they will feel the same amount of pride in their accomplishment as I would.
I like you, enjoy the challenges and the extra time I need to take to correct or rebuild a piece, when it does not come out just right.

I hope that I have not offended any one out there but since I am over 75 years old, I really don't give a d***. Some of my best friends have CNCs. Right John !!

David

When the enemy is in range, so are you.
Bushwhacker is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2018, 10:45 AM
Registered User
 
Gaffboat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Oliver
Posts: 2,186
 
Default

As you say, Colin, itís a hobby, and it should be enjoyable. For some, that means using only hand tools. For others, itís a combination of hand and power tools, and for others still, itís using a computer to design, and a CNC to cut to cut the parts.

I mostly use power tools and CNC, but designing in CAD sometimes cramps my style. I often need just to hold the wood in my hand, turning it this way and that, drawing on it with a pencil to figure out the best solution for my project.

The answer is to work whichever way makes your shop time fun. Thatís why itís called a hobby - an activity done regularly in oneís leisure time for pleasure.

Dragons slain. Damsels rescued. No reasonable request refused ... unless the dragon's really big.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~ Leonardo da Vinci

You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

http://profhenrys.blogspot.com
Gaffboat is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2018, 12:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Country: United States
First Name: John
Posts: 4,349
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaffboat View Post

The answer is to work whichever way makes your shop time fun. Thatís why itís called a hobby - an activity done regularly in oneís leisure time for pleasure.

It's a hobby til you start taking orders or making things for others!!!
DaninVan, Gaffboat and Herb Stoops like this.

HJ

Detroit Burbs

RoutervilleUSA on Etsy

I took the tests and retirement is the best job I'm suited for.

Now I know why old guys wear suspenders.
honesttjohn is online now  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2018, 09:14 PM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,840
 
Default

I'm with you Colin, it's not fun unless you can screw it up youself.
DaninVan likes this.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is online now  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-19-2018, 09:20 AM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,840
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by honesttjohn View Post
It's a hobby til you start taking orders or making things for others!!!
Very true, I want to work at my own pace. And that is exactly why I decided not to opt for Etsy. So, for now at least, I figure flea markets and consignment shops are the way to go.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is online now  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-19-2018, 10:04 AM
Registered User
 
AudioHTIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Country: United States
First Name: Bruce
Posts: 97
 
Default

I absolutely love Visio and have been using it for about 25 years. Itís a drawing / drafting program but I might hesitate to call it CAD, and though I tried AutoCAD some time back, it wasnít intuitive to me. I spend hours with Visio working out every detail of what Iím going to build, it has layering, color, gradations, patterns; you can add dimensions and predefined shapes and templates, but it doesnít really do anything for you. Thereís no real 3D, it doesnít build cut lists, but it makes damn good drawings.

I can show my wife exactly what something will look like when itís done, and I only half joke that I know when Iím done with a project when it looks like the drawing (I actually designed our house with it ... and it looks like the drawing ). With my latest project ďLa CredenzaĒ I made something well beyond my skills, but having the drawings and pictures of all the detail required was there to aid me along the way. I could always check a dimension or location, and if I hit a snag (canít think of everything), I can sit down and work it out.

However I had a career in IT and Iím very comfortable at a computer, I enjoy making the drawings as much as any part of the project (and much more than some). I used Visio at work to design computer networks and it helped me convince my mangers to give me the budgets I needed for hardware and software every year. I build things because I need them and want them to be a certain way, my brain needs the detail of a drawing for me to make it right, maybe itís a handicap. Anyway I have friends who scribble on a board and make something beautiful, and some in between, no right or wrong just how we are.

You can see a lot of my Visio drawings in The Credenza thread, itís actually in use now but the project continues, I need to post some updates. Hereís the final drawing of the entire wall the Credenza sits on, I know Iím not done because the shelf above isnít there yetónor will it have that Ďobject de artí dodad, some things I let my wife have a hand in.

https://www.routerforums.com/show-n-...-credenza.html
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	97246EAD-7446-49C1-AEA2-1E67D60A374F.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	427.7 KB
ID:	358853  

DaninVan, Herb Stoops and jj777746 like this.

Is it snow yet?

Last edited by AudioHTIT; 08-19-2018 at 10:10 AM.
AudioHTIT is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Auto CAD Drawings sfleck CNC Routing 10 06-03-2011 11:47 PM
Need Your Help With Cad Software AzViper CNC Routing 5 06-03-2011 10:07 AM
CAD advantages bandsaw barry Project Plans and How To 5 10-02-2010 08:37 PM
cad info wood dust New Member Introductions 2 01-27-2010 04:13 AM
Looking for a CAD file to make a template tearen Guide Bushings and Templates 1 06-11-2008 10:10 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome