Are batteries a thing of the past? - Router Forums
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
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Default Are batteries a thing of the past?

https://shunbin.en.alibaba.com/produ...47ea3e5f4rxtM2

Note that the capacity is 500 FARADS, capacitors used in consumer electronics are rated in MICRO Farads!

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 01:03 AM
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My son thinks they might be. He's been telling me about storing energy in capacitors for a few months now. He's been talking about them being used in hand tools like drills though instead of automotive like your link shows. He said the charge rate could literally be seconds with the right charger and power source and they could be a lot smaller and lighter than the typical Li+ batteries we are using now.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 05:13 AM
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Where is Elon Musk when you want him??
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 07:28 AM
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We have used capacitors as instant voltage stabilizers in big car audio systems for years. You can buy a 5 Farad cap with digital voltmeter for about $ 100 new.

Lamborghini has recently commissioned/collaborated with two departments at MIT to further develop alternative energy storage solutions, including a new type of carbon material that will be used for the chassis and body panels.

Some current super / hyper cars utilize super capacitors as well as electric and gasoline motors, along with batteries for optimal performance. McLaren uses electric motors to stop gap the turbo lag on their older cars, so this entire complex drive system category is rolling full steam ahead, along with battery and capacitor development. The new Chevy CoPo Camaro factory drag racer is all electric, but uses 800V instead of the more common 440 V setups for more power delivery......into a conventional transmission and torque converter no less. Car is rated around 800 hp and runs the quarter mile in 8s or 9s as is de rigeur for the the Mustang Cobra Jet and Dodge Demon non street versions.

Capacitors have much faster current rise times than batteries because it's a field effect, not a chemical reaction that delivers the energy.

Amazing times we live in; despite my penchant for being a dinosaur with carburetors and manual transmission in my toy car, and carbs and 2 stroke engine in my sled.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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In my audio days 10,000 micro-farad was as high as was used in car audio. Panasonic video cassette recorders used a 3 farad super cap. to maintain the clock/timer in the event of power failure and that was in the 80's.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 08:54 AM
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I did not see mention of amp-hours? How does it compare to automotive battery?
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 09:42 AM
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Interesting, I was just talking to my son about super caps a few days ago. He is an electrical engineer he installs and repairs MRI scanners . He believes super caps could have a large impact on the future. Battery technology has been holding use back for years.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 11:14 AM
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Don't capacators keep accumulating charge (voltage increase) over time? So it may start at a certain voltage level, then increase as it continues charging? My Camry hybrid runs at 700 volts and uses mainly lithium ion batteries. I'm sure there are capacators in the electric motors that usually drive the wheels, but I don't know how capacators can replace the batteries. I do recall hearing that in the early days of Toyota hybrids, a few mechanics were electrocuted, and that special training is required for working on these cars. In the old days, you were reminded NEVER to touch the contacts on a capacitor, even a fairly small one.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooler2 View Post
I did not see mention of amp-hours? How does it compare to automotive battery?
Amp-hours are not really relevant to capacitors. It is an important rating to batteries, because batteries are a chemical process that gets less efficient as temperature goes down. Charge and discharge rates have to be controlled to avoid overheating the electrolyte solution, which can severely damage the battery. The amp-hour rating is a measure of how much current (Amperes) it can deliver to a specified load, for a specified time and under specified conditions.

A capacitor is basically two conductive films separated by an insulator. Charging time and discharge time are governed by the value of the capacitor and the resistance of the external circuits. Tweaking those values can make charge & discharge times as long or short as desired. If the terminals of a charged supercapacitor are shorted by a solid metal bar, it will try to dump all of its charge at once. DO NOT DO THIS! It can produce spectacular fireworks, flashburns, electromagnetic pulses, physical damage or even death. On the other hand while a capacitor could theoretically be charged instantaneously, practical circuits will not allow that due to the limits of materials.

The materials and circuits of a capacacitor based energy system can be adjusted to deliver whatever performance is desired, over a wide range of environmental conditions. Batteries are much more limited, especially by temperature.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graeme.c.payne View Post
Amp-hours are not really relevant to capacitors. It is an important rating to batteries, because batteries are a chemical process that gets less efficient as temperature goes down. Charge and discharge rates have to be controlled to avoid overheating the electrolyte solution, which can severely damage the battery. The amp-hour rating is a measure of how much current (Amperes) it can deliver to a specified load, for a specified time and under specified conditions.

A capacitor is basically two conductive films separated by an insulator. Charging time and discharge time are governed by the value of the capacitor and the resistance of the external circuits. Tweaking those values can make charge & discharge times as long or short as desired. If the terminals of a charged supercapacitor are shorted by a solid metal bar, it will try to dump all of its charge at once. DO NOT DO THIS! It can produce spectacular fireworks, flashburns, electromagnetic pulses, physical damage or even death. On the other hand while a capacitor could theoretically be charged instantaneously, practical circuits will not allow that due to the limits of materials.

The materials and circuits of a capacacitor based energy system can be adjusted to deliver whatever performance is desired, over a wide range of environmental conditions. Batteries are much more limited, especially by temperature.
But it is critical to know what a capacitor battery will replace for a car or electric vehicle? How much current for how long before being too depleted to start a car? What capacity is the linked 16v car battery?
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