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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Hi guys, sorry I haven't checked in lately. Been a busy month, but more over, I've had little to no energy. I've been able to come on here and snoop a bit, like a couple things, but that's about it. When I get out of work, I'm exhausted. I sit in my chair with intentions to do things, and I was falling asleep. UGH! Then the weekends had been too hot for any real work in the shop until late... (I WILL be gettin an A/C for next year! Mark my words! ) I have, however, been working on dust collection ideas that would suit us for now (until I can get a bigger, better system) as well as trying to get the electrical put in, the 14th we went to NY to bury Ken's parents, had our so-called vacation last week, and tonight, we're going to see Ted Nugent in concert. (Our daughter got me tickets for my birthday. To be honest, not looking fwd to it, but she spent over $100 for these tickets, so I have to go. What the heck. I'll get a T-shirt out of it, right? )

Did get my screens done, (all three of them) and today, it looks like I'm going to convert my "desk" that I use to route at into a downdraft table to help collect all the particles I route away. I had come up with the idea months ago, but Ken balked at it, sayin it wouldn't work. Well, Thursday night, while I was attempting to clean up a little in there (I like to have a clean start when I get into the shop) I took everything off the table/desk and tipped it over. Lo' n' behold, my original idea WILL work, and I called Ken out of the house to prove it. (I'll try and post pics later to show it all...) for now...

See, the desk I use (it's in a couple pics I've posted showing the shop and that) is made of plastic/resin, whatever. Well, it has a tray that fits in a grove on the top. My idea was to 1: remove the "tray" and build it up, creating a platform like a sanding downdraft box, and hooking up a vacuum to it underneath to capture the dust, or 2: create a tray-like mechanism underneath, drilling holes (again, like a sanding box) through the top, with a port underneath for the vacuum to hook up to, sucking up the debris.

Well, after tipping it over, and investigating this desk, I found out/was reminded..... that this desk was a computer-style desk that has a storage area in the back of the table to run lines in. It's a significant "storage" area back there, to boot. I took off the top, and found out that the compartment is make of thick particle board - "I can drill into that!" (I thought). "I could drill out a port in this, secure it with screws, run a elbow.....!" You get the drift. I'm surprised I didn't fill up the neighborhood with smoke with all the ideas runnin through my head that night; anyway, I yanked Ken outta the house, and once I was done showing him how my original idea of making it a downdraft WOULD work, I guess today (before I have to get ready to go to the concert) I'm getting the parts necessary to convert my desk.

Hope everyone is well; I was able to take a couple minutes yesterday while at work to snoop a minute; Love the idea of the sub forum on dust collection. Very much needed. Thank you Charles.

Since I'm up to chapter six in this book, I better get on the road and get things done. Wanna accomplish something, since the weather is cooler, and a bit more palatable. OH YEAH! Got a new truck, this month, too. (Well, new to me. It's a 2014) If anyone is interested, let me know, and I'll post some pics of what's goin' on in Barbies World.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutoftheWoodwork View Post
Then the weekends had been too hot for any real work in the shop until late... (I WILL be gettin an A/C for next year! Mark my words! )
For now get a large floor fan, likely a box fan would work, and direct the air at you. When I worked with computers we had something like 11 mainframes in one room. AC couldn't cope after the last one or two put in, so the got 2 large floor fans. Worked. But then they put in two huge AC units, one at each end of the room. Almost like working in a fridge after that.

In Nam had a table top fan, blew directly on me when I slept, and didn't have problems from the heat, and slept like a baby. Right now have a box fan in the window of my shop, keeps me cool enough to work out there, even thru the summer, plus it blows dust thru the open door.

Or, you could make a ceiling fan, one of those that goes back and forth and is operated by a rope, and have Ken operate it.

And, yes, pictures. You know some of these guys can't read.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 05:46 PM
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Hi Barb...Got a HF coupon for 25% off, applied to the DC unit, it cuts costs a lot. The heat has been getting to me too lately. Breathing has been affected, that and altitude combined is a challenge, so it's nap, nap, nap.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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@JOAT I have two fans, Theo. They just weren't enough. My building is all day sun. Just gonna have to break down and get the A/C

Barb


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 11:37 AM
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A/C will work but only for a while unless you make sure there's a good filter system in place. If you're talking about a windows unit the filters are trash and the sawdust will stop up the system very quickly which will end the colder air and possible freeze the unit. Some thought will be needed to build a filter box in front of the evaporator coil and use a pleated style filter that's easily changed. They cost more but pay now or later. And cleaning a window style A/C is a pain so keeping the coil clean is key. And yes, there are two coils. The one facing the room (where the filter is needed) and the one facing outside with a fan in between. Outdoor coil just needs some coil cleaner and a hosing off. The better you filter the room side the less maintenance it will need, the better, more efficient it will run, and the longer it will last. Build a frame that covers the front coil area well and make it for a standard sized filter like 16x20, 20x25, and so on based on the size of the unit. You only need to filter the area of the indoor coil so look at any unit you consider with this in mind. The stock filter that comes with it will be pulled out and not used. Make sure that the filter box you make is covering the whole indoor coil and no blocking any controls. Most these days come with wireless remotes. Do not filter the condenser coil (outdoor) which is where the indoor heat that's removed is blown. It needs to be open to the air to dissipate the heat.

If you're talking about a central unit like for a house with an outdoor unit (condenser) and indoor unit (evaporator) things are a bit different as they usually have a filter slot built in for 1" filters but may not be a standard size. If not standard sized then consider a filter box of standard sizing mounted to the entering side of the evaporator to replace the original, not to use with but replacing. Too much filter causes reduced airflow and is problematic in itself. Hotel style through the wall units have the same issue as window units so you'll need to build a box in front of the coil as mentioned above.

As for filters, forget about those $0.99 fiberglass throwaways or even the fiberglass washables (loose shape over time) but actually get the reinforced pleated filters. On my home HVAC system I have 4" pleated filters and when I replaced my system after 18 years the indoor coil looked like new and was never cleaned. I change the filter every 6-9 months when it is fully loaded. Cost per filter has been about $7 per filter for MERV 11 20x25x4 filters. I buy them by the box online here

Keep in mind that for a saw dusty shop you'll change as needed but way more often. For get monthly but rather keep an eye on it and see when it needs changing. You may find every few months, maybe longer, maybe not. When it's well loaded it's time or you could see if the discharge air is at 20 degrees colder than room temperature. Of course that's after it's been running a while and it isn't 100 degrees outside. Sizing the unit properly will determine how well it will work. There are some online guidelines that can help sizing based on your typical weather (if that really exists anymore), area cooling, insulation, window, and building information.

That should keep you busy for a while.........or you could call a HVAC company and get a quote. Let them size and price the system. But keep in mind that properly sized residential systems are based on a 20 degree change across the coil (as mentioned above) up to a 95 degree day. So anything over 95 degrees will not cool below 75 unless the unit is oversized in which case you'll likely have higher humidity. An AC/HP system that runs for a short period of time will not efficiently lower humidity well. Longer run better humidity control. Shorts running time it could feel like a refrigerator which is moist.....

Just something to think about. What is considered a comfortable acceptable working temperature for the shop and how much are you willing to make sure it lasts? Calling a HVAC service company to service your window unit isn't very efficient. Labor and material in some cases makes it cheaper to replace the unit after several years. The filter will make a huge difference in negating that cost. Coil cleaner is available at most stores like Loews and Home Depot. Mixing it properly and using as instructed is safe, with the power turned off of course, and if necessary brushing the condenser coil (outdoor) if needed before cleaning. Typical cleaning for AC once a year, on HPs twice as they run year long.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 04:06 PM
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I want with oversized window ACs, and cut openings throught he walls to mount them. Does the job pretty well. Insulation is super important or your AC is trying to cool the entire town. You also have to make sure you seal that sucker so you don't get wind and rain leaking in. I put a piece of metal flashing across the top, sealed with lots of 50 year goop against the outside wall and across the top of the unit. This carries rain off to the side and prevents leaks. You also have to insulate the wide doors and seal the heck out of the thing. For winter, I just went with a couple of space heaters. Two to bring the temp up, one to keep it there. When it's really cold, I use a heat gun to take the chill off.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 05:16 PM
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The guys are having a ball spending your $$ Barb!!!

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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The guys are having a ball spending your $$ Barb!!!
Yeah, I noticed that! LOL

We'll address the air filter first. Yup, we've been edumacated on the air filter thing. I was advised to get the air filter, first, and the dust system second. Needless to say, another purchase that needs to be done. I'll be getting that, before the A/C, and I'll be having a window unit, as I don't have anyone to cut a hole in the walls, and I don't feel like cutting into my brand new siding, either. Maybe later. We'll see.

Barb


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
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If you choose to poke at a bee hive, be prepared to get stung.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 06:27 PM
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Actually the air filter I'm talking about is for the AC. You'd need to build a frame once you know what physical size the window unit is and have it in front of that to filter the air going in. But yeah, if you're making a lot of fine sawdust then you'd also want a ceiling hung filtering system as well......kinda sorta like this except I'd use the pleated filter because those fiberglass throw away filters are really not so good and won't stop that much especially when it comes to the shop.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 04:40 PM
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One more thing, when we insulated the garage ceiling, we started by stapling radiant barrier to the underside of the roofing. Checked it with an IR sensor and it cut the surface temp by 35 degrees. So if you're going to insulate up top, put that barrier up first. It comes in 22 inch wide rolls and is quick and easy to install. It really helps increase the effectiveness of the insulation by reducing the heat it has to deal with.

It looks a little like the small bubble wrap, but has two layers with the bubbles trapped between. R factor is minor, but it refelects infra red heat away. With your shop sitting in open sun, that IR heat will simply build up. During winter, that uninsulated roof will leak the heat right out. If it were my shop it would be Radiant Barrier, insulation, drywall or ply, AC unit rated for more sqft than you actually have. With insulation, good inexpensive heaters should warm it up. BTW, if the windows aren't double pane, high E, think about cutting some 2 inch thick insulating foam to block them when it gets cold outside. You lose a little light, but lose less heat.

The DC goes on my schedule immediately, although you're not running saws all day long and if you get DC adapters for your machines, a shop vac with a dust deputy chip collector could serve for awhile. If you make a little deck outside the door, you can roll your DC out there and stick with the cloth bag filter for awhile.

Damn budgets. Force you to think things through.
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