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post #11 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 05:18 PM
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By the way, I don't think this is a political topic at all and the conversation is quite civil, no one is shouting anyone else down. Grown up exchange of thoughts, and in many ways it relates to forest growth, which is a serious issue for woodworkers as the rarer materials keep rising in price, or become unavailable.
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post #12 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 06:04 PM
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Renewable GREEN energy? : https://cowboystatedaily.com/2019/08...sper-landfill/

Current CO2 levels= 407 parts per million= 1 molecule of CO2 for every 2450 molecules of everything else. The theory for CO2 states that CO2 molecules reflect sunlight back down to the earth instead of allowing the energy to flow into outer space. Just exactly how much energy can 1 molecule in 2450 reflect back? Logically not much.

CO2 levels 100,000,000 years ago were 20 times what they are now yet it was one of the most prolific periods in the history of the earth in terms of plant and animal life. Keep in mind that everything around us today is descended from something that existed during that period. So how much is too much then?

If you go back to my last post and look at the graphs posted in the video it links to you'll see that we are actually in a cooling period. We have been since the 1940s.

Oceans have been rising at the rate of 2.84 mm per year since Abraham Lincoln was president just as steady as clockwork. You can relax if you were considering ocean front property. It won't be under water in any of our lifetimes.
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post #13 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 10:03 PM
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Ok...From my spot in the hemisphere...

The earth has been heating and cooling for millions of years. Ice ages come and ice ages go. And will continue to do so until the Sun fries us in 5 billion years....

My big concern is that we are polluting the Earth with plastics which are killing the creatures in the oceans faster than any increase in temprature so small we cannot feel it.

I am concerned that no one uses actual data any more, just 'modeled " figures which, like statics in gereral, can be made to show any pre-concieved result.

There may be some that do not want us to discuss these topics as we may wake up to what is going on....

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post #14 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 12:14 AM
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James, I feel pretty much the way you do. Cleaning up our environment, conservation, clearing the plastics and trash are all very worthwhile. I have noticed there are a number of individuals who have taken up cleaning the ocean, even forming small companies that have taken it on. Very happy to see that.

What I object to is the focus on CO2, which as Charles noted, rises and falls over time and which as I noted, is already triggering more plant life, which absorbs it and puts out oxygen and nutrients that will feed a lot of people. In a religious sense, maybe the tiny rise in CO2 is God's way of providing for our 7 billion fellow humans.

Whatever you believe, we can't go wrong cleaning up all possible pollution. Let's just be smart about it and wait til we have some serious solutions on CO2. Meanwhile, plant lots more trees and manage the West's forests so they stop burning down every Summer and Fall. Can you imagine the amount of CO2 and other real pollutants have come from the California fires of the last few years?

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post #15 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooler2 View Post
I enjoyed the read but I am not sure what your point is. Are you a climate change denier? Do you think a smart phone does not save many kilometres of unnecessary driving? Do you think people should be free to damage their environment with no legal consequences? Until the vast majourity of the population is aware of how we are effecting climate it will be impossible to do anything about it. At my age I am not worried for myself but if I was a teen aged person I would be concerned that no serious efforts are being made to stop it.
Not at all Rob., I certainly do believe in climate change, it has been going on since time began and will continue until the earth ends. My point is that all these protesters are using the benefits of technology which use energy to manufacture and require minerals to be mined etc. Have you considered the power used to make the giant wind generators or the solar panels, neither of which produce base load power, when the wind stops and the sun doesn't shine, no power is produced.
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post #16 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 11:41 AM
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Have you considered the power used to make the giant wind generators or the solar panels, neither of which produce base load power, when the wind stops and the sun doesn't shine, no power is produced.
The fact that they aren't reliable 24 hrs a day means we still have to have the original system in place which may not be operating at a capacity which makes it efficient when the alternative energy is on line and still capable of producing 100% when those sources are offline. So we are paying for 2 systems, neither of which may be very efficient. That sounds expensive to me. And going back to the link in my last post about the Casper, Wyoming land fill may not really be very green to start with. It seems to me like we are being rushed into this without enough consideration for all the impacts.

This reminds me a bit of the rush to add ethanol to our gasoline as a green initiative. What happened is that it made the corn the ethanol is made from so valuable to farmers in the mid west where it's grown to take land that had previously been uneconomical to farm and which formed a series of small wildlife refuges and turn them into cropland.
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post #17 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 12:25 PM
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We now have 16 days without sunspots...approaching the Solar minimum...
https://www.9news.com/article/news/l...s/73-622218608
Cold weather events everywhere.
https://www.iceagenow.info/

But hey, lets blame inhalers...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-a8273991.html

'Follow the money'.
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post #18 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 01:59 PM
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Not at all Rob., I certainly do believe in climate change, it has been going on since time began and will continue until the earth ends. My point is that all these protesters are using the benefits of technology which use energy to manufacture and require minerals to be mined etc. Have you considered the power used to make the giant wind generators or the solar panels, neither of which produce base load power, when the wind stops and the sun doesn't shine, no power is produced.
In this day and age ''climate change'' refers to Man's affect on the climate, predominately increased CO2 levels from burning stored carbon and reducing forested area. Things that are beyond our control are inevitable. Obviously the future lies in storing electricity or hydrogen or heat in meaningful amounts and a lot of clever people are working on that.LED lights can reduce the power used to illuminate the world and look how far that has come in the last decade alone. There is no reason trains can't run on electricity, lets save the fossil fuel for air-planes!
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post #19 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 02:03 PM
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Hmmm. Interesting. I recall when in elementary school in the mid 50s that we were told the earth was cooling. As for CO2, isn't that a byproduct of human respiration? I find it rather humorous that the teenagers want us to do something about the mess. What are they doing to alleviate the mess? In the mid 50s, we had one AM radio in the kitchen, one TV in the spare room that would be considered a den, no air conditioning, two oscillating fans in the bedrooms. If it was real hot, one of the fans would be moved to the den so we could watch TV. If we skipped school, we were counted absent and needed a note from a parent explaining why we were absent. If no note, parents were asked why we weren't in school. The consequences were severe. (FWIW, a comedian said when he was a kid, time out referred to the number of minutes you were unconscious.) If we didn't hand in homework or take an exam, we were given a zero for that work. Now for the teenagers who protest...do you want some cheese with that whine?
Plastics? Go back to glass containers. It seems the problem isn't the plastics but people who carelessly discard them improperly. Cities are requiring paper drinking straws. So we will be littered with paper now.
I recall reading that Great Britain had an mini-ice age during the mid 19th century where temps were so low that gardens and crops failed. Anyone recall that?

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post #20 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 02:12 PM
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Here is a photo of trash taken from the Ohio River. Signage tells of how many tons are present. How did the trash get there? Humans discarding it on land to be washed or blown into the river. Not all trash was thrown into the river. This was seen with a couple of other trash displays in Indiana across from Louisville at the Falls Of The Ohio Park. Worth seeing.
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