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post #31 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 10:32 PM
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Very informative, Rick...thanks...you pose an excellent question...

Makes me think of those that believed that the world would end years ago as might have been indicated by the Mayan calendar...wonder what they did with their 401-K's...

A farmer in my town had a bumper sticker that read "if you're gonna ***** about farming, don't do it with your mouth full" (maybe paraphrased). I believe it applies to these issues as well.
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post #32 of 336 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 10:40 PM
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Seems like we're able to have reasonably civilized conversation here, ie no name-calling or threats, but apparently not true eveywhere...
https://www.breitbart.com/environmen...r-her-critics/

(Kinda wish they'd make her go back to school...)
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post #33 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DaninVan View Post
How come they aren't casting any shadows?! (it's Halloween...how appropriate is that?)
I think their in Australia where everything is upside down?
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post #34 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 01:53 AM
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I think their in Australia where everything is upside down?
Well yeh...why didn't I think of that?
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post #35 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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In this day and age ''climate change'' refers to Man's affect on the climate, predominately increased CO2 levels from burning stored carbon and reducing forested area. Things that are beyond our control are inevitable. Obviously the future lies in storing electricity or hydrogen or heat in meaningful amounts and a lot of clever people are working on that.LED lights can reduce the power used to illuminate the world and look how far that has come in the last decade alone. There is no reason trains can't run on electricity, lets save the fossil fuel for air-planes!
First "global warming", now reduced to "climate change", I wonder what name will be given next. Surely all the savings from going from incandescent lighting to LED's is being negated by all the live volcanoes and bush fires around the world like those currently in California.
Electric trains are very nice but lots of Copper is required to make them and supply power to them, the latest demonstrations here in Australia are about anti mining! How is all that extra power to be generated?
As has been mentioned, disposal of waste, especially plastics is a problem and I'm all for finding ways to replace/dispose of plastics.
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post #36 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 08:39 AM
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CO2 IS NOT a pollutant. The variation in Parts per Million has be infinitesimal when you consider it's parts per MILLION.
If the numbers haven't been fiddled with we're up to maybe 370ppm ....big deal.

*excellent coverage of the CO2 concentration topic here...
https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/last_400k_yrs.html
especially note that a rise in CO2 follows a global temperature increase by a few hundred years, not the other way around.

Does anyone seriously believe that a change in CO2 of what .00001% is going to cause cataclysmic climate change?!
This isn't to say that we aren't going to experience a serious shift in climate, but rather than squandering our resources on feel good nonsense, we need to be focusing on ameliorating changes caused.
I've read that we are up to 407 ppm now. As I said before that equates to 1 molecule for every 2456 other molecules of all the other gases. Pretty close to the equivalent of a fart in a hurricane.

Those graphs you posted links to are quite interesting. It appears that the rise in CO2 was CAUSED by the temperature spikes at about 120,000 years, 240,000 years, and 315,000 years ago. And the current rise started with a temperature surge about 15,000 years ago. Which about coincides with the end of the last ice age. The temperature spike closest to year zero might be the 1930s which was the hottest decade in modern times. What is also interesting to note is that despite CO2 levels rising exponentially, the graph shows that we are cooling down instead of warming up. Just like most reputable scientists have been claiming lately. Maybe we are headed into an ice age like they were telling us back in the 70s.
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post #37 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 09:36 AM
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I'm thinking of a saying- When in wonder, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!
80% of life forms that have appeared on earth are extinct. It's rather egotistical that we think we might survive for future centuries. There are those who advocate negative population growth. However, that would be an economic disaster as many economies are built on consumer activity. Just watch advertising on TV- you gotta have this latest _______! Fill in the blank.
Wind turbines are under study as changing migration patterns of birds. Also, they are finding dead raptors at the base of the windmills. I saw windmills in CA and AZ. IMHO, they are ugly, with a capital UG, in such a beautiful setting.
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post #38 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 12:14 PM
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Charles; where did the "2456 other molecules of all the other gases" come from?
That may be a tich out of context?
The ppm is a snapshot taken of a random sample of 1,000,000 molecules. The sample of all gases has to add up to 1M moledules.
But your analogy of a fart in a hurricane is spot on.

*note that water vapour isn't included in that 1M. Water vapour is a huge part of the heat entrapment process.
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Last edited by DaninVan; 11-01-2019 at 12:17 PM. Reason: added text
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post #39 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 12:54 PM
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1,000,000parts/407parts (per million)= 2457 It's the ratio of CO2 to everything else combined. 1 to 2456 if you subtract the CO2 molecule out of the total.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.

Last edited by Cherryville Chuck; 11-01-2019 at 01:36 PM.
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post #40 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 02:15 PM
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Not sure kids who have been taught the last two versions of math might not understand fractions and percentages. Thus they may be easily confused. Show a picture of water vapor leaving a towere and that's what a lot of people think is pollution by CO2.

What we have left out is particulates, including simple dust stirred up by winds. Out here in the desert, we have some of the cleanest air anywhere, and we have dust, which the EPA is beginning to call pollution. Wonder how much we'll wind up paying to clear this up. Watering down construction sites is already done, but water is a little scarce here. And a large portion of the SouthWest is desert. Maybe we should outlaw wind and dust devils? No vehicles blowing air around beside roads (speed limit of 7mph?). Tax on brooms and leaf blowers? Budget at least $200 billion for dust suppression, borrowed from China?
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