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post #81 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 12:34 PM
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Fertilizers can be an indirect pollutant when they enter the water system and cause the algae blooms.

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post #82 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 02:39 PM
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Remember when it was the Phosphates? Got rid of them and we've still got algae...
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post #83 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 03:47 PM
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Don’t forget cow farts . Apparently the methane coming from their butts is a major cause of global warming, and their saying we should stop eating meat .
Well we had a good run

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post #84 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 04:48 PM
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Remember when it was the Phosphates? Got rid of them and we've still got algae...
We got rid of phosphates did we?
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post #85 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 07:01 PM
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We got rid of phosphates did we?
Nope. here's a U.N. report on the topic. A LOT is used worldwide so the ocean blooms are still happening. http://www.fao.org/3/a-i6895e.pdf

Again, the problem is how do we feed everyone without them? It's like hydrocarbon based energty (coal petroleum), who do we deny access to among the modern world's 3 billion poor? And how do we do it without bankrupting the only nations who might be able to afford it? Need some serious, practical answers to those questions before we start throwing money around.

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post #86 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 07:41 PM
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Nope. here's a U.N. report on the topic. A LOT is used worldwide so the ocean blooms are still happening. http://www.fao.org/3/a-i6895e.pdf

Again, the problem is how do we feed everyone without them? It's like hydrocarbon based energty (coal petroleum), who do we deny access to among the modern world's 3 billion poor? And how do we do it without bankrupting the only nations who might be able to afford it? Need some serious, practical answers to those questions before we start throwing money around.
With respect, I don't think that IS the question. I think the question might be: "how do we keep phosphates we use from doing unintended, harmful things". This may involve a combination of smarter use so we use less and smarter use so it's not lost to runnof etc etc etc.

Too often extremes are assumed with these issues, when extremes are not required. When people talk about fossil fuels and ACC, they immediately assume people want to stop all fossil fuel use everywhere immediately. The reality is, the earth can handle some fossil fuel emissions, just not the amounts we are emitting now. So wherever it really makes sense to keep using diesel, then we can probably keep using it.

Not much in this world is black or white....trying to look at an issue in black or white terms just makes everything problematic.
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post #87 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 09:56 PM
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Donít forget cow farts . Apparently the methane coming from their butts is a major cause of global warming, and their saying we should stop eating meat .
Well we had a good run

We are all going to have to stop eating meat, fish, poultry etc. Rick.


The world needs that land to grow crops to feed the billions....(not the land for for fish.......obviously....LOL)
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post #88 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 10:35 PM
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[QUOTE=timbrframr;2060843]With respect, I don't think that IS the question. I think the question might be: "how do we keep phosphates we use from doing unintended, harmful things". This may involve a combination of smarter use so we use less and smarter use so it's not lost to runnof etc etc etc.


Not much in this world is black or white....

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post #89 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 11:06 AM
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The only way I know of to reduce runoff is to go back to tilling the soil again so that the fertilizer is in the ground instead of on the ground but it will still leach. That also has negative consequences. I work spring and fall in the industry and the farmers I deal with are using the best farming practices they can. It is economically to their benefit to do so but every system has pros and cons. For example much has been said about genetically modified crops in the last few years and many people believe that they may be responsible for long term health consequences but as one 3rd generation farmer from Grande Prairie who is quite knowledgeable told me if we did that it would condemn 100,000 people per day to starve to death. It`s an issue that is a lot more complicated than it seems.
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Last edited by Cherryville Chuck; 11-04-2019 at 11:18 AM.
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post #90 of 336 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 11:38 AM
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With respect, I don't think that IS the question. I think the question might be: "how do we keep phosphates we use from doing unintended, harmful things". This may involve a combination of smarter use so we use less and smarter use so it's not lost to runnof etc etc etc.

Too often extremes are assumed with these issues, when extremes are not required. When people talk about fossil fuels and ACC, they immediately assume people want to stop all fossil fuel use everywhere immediately. The reality is, the earth can handle some fossil fuel emissions, just not the amounts we are emitting now. So wherever it really makes sense to keep using diesel, then we can probably keep using it.

Not much in this world is black or white....trying to look at an issue in black or white terms just makes everything problematic.
An excellent point. Thanks for presenting it so well. This brings the issue back to earth and worth pursuing. The extreme predictions foment resistance, a more balanced approach might elicit real cooperation. Homeostasis can probably be achieved at multiple levels of atmospheric percentages. A new ice age would probably balance population with resources, but humans would not appreciate the resulting die off as arable land is buried in ice.

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