Got to start thinking again - Router Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Default Got to start thinking again

Honestly. Projects in the past I would save photos, then go over them, discard any I didn't like, repeat, until I was down to maybe a dozen or so pictures. Then I'd look them over, take a bit from one, a bit from another, until I had a rough sketch of what I wanted. My owls are an example. Started with 300+ pictures, and wound up with an owl, that doesn't look like any other owl in the world, but you can still look at and know it's an owl. Had to think when doing projects like that.

But lately not been thinking. Believe I mentioned waking up and sitting on the side of the bed, when suddenly I realized I knew how to make a hand cranked forge blower. Thirty seconds later had details figured out. Hadn't even been thinking of a forge blower. Thinking I won't make one tho, more likely will make a double stack blower - more fun to make, and old fashiony.

Then there is a project I've been thinking about for months, on and off. Hadn't thought about it in weeks. And suddenly realized I knew just how I would make it, and it was much more simpler then what I had previously been thinking.

Stopped at Arby's for a Ruben the other day. Noticed I didn't see a tip jar, so asked, and they did not have one. Forgot about it. Got home sat down, noticed my carry bag, with a sketch pad. Grabbed the pad and a pencil, and in about two minutes had this rough sketch of a tip jar.

This is starting to drive me nuts. I like thinking much more, those projects draw on for days and are something I am interested in at the time. Here is a photo of the tip jar. Got the other two saved in my mind. Now I want to make a pig tip jar, long the same lines, for that one I'll have to research and think.
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"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-07-2020, 07:34 AM
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Hey Theo, you should be grateful. It shows that you have internalised your process, and are now performing the actions in your subconscious mind - probably during REM sleep. People pay good money to achieve the same thing.
Be happy for once. You did it yourself, you did not have to buy anything, it is unique to you, you cannot be accused of using anybody else’s idea. Sounds just like one of your projects gone right.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-07-2020, 12:41 PM
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What most people think of as thinking is really rumination, turning input over and over. Real thinking occurs in intuitive leaps. Solutions just pop up, exactly what you're talking about. I wouldn't mess with your process.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-07-2020, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, there's more. Take a good look at my Avatar. Different one from the old one and changes made. AND I also figured out how to put the same one on my phone, and it looks great.

Got a metal project out in the shop, been sitting for several years. To properly finish it need an engraving vise, so I can use files on it. Had planned on making one, had an old bowling ball for it. Then the younger son 'borrowed' it, to go bowling he said. Some time later asked about it. "What bowling ball?", was the answer I got, so gave up on that. Used to be able to get old, beat up, bowling balls on craigslist, so decided to get one or two. Cheapest is now $15-20. No way am I paying money like that, plus the cost of a small vise. So planned to knock together a simple one-time use lathe and turn a ball from glued layered wood. Then figured too hard to get a really round ball, but knew I could make one that looked like an egg plant that would work. Then decided too much time and work. Then got a mention of a salad bowl. Had the answer in about 30 seconds. Got a salad bowl, some scrap metal in the bottom, then cement (about $2.40 for a bag). If the concrete will come out, use construction adhesive to hold it in, then adhesive a circle of wood on top. Couple of short chunks of thick angle iron, drill matching holes thru each, then two holes in one to screw it to the wood. Short bolts thru the matching holes, two wing nuts, and viola, a working engraving vise for a total cost of around $3. Being as I have no plans for any engraving, this will do just what I want it for.

There is actually more. But some, if not all, of this stuff hasn't crossed my mind for weeks, months, or in at least one case, years. Then just popped up.

I am told I do have some advantages over most people.
I can picture this stuff, in my mind.
I can picture this stuff in color, in my mind.
I can move this stuff to get views from different angles, in my mind.

Personally, I think more people could do things like this in their minds if they tried. I've tried to get a number of people to try doing it, but the answer is always, "I can't do that". Actually, I do not know if these things are something I could always do, or if they started, or more definite, after I started doing meditation in the late '60s/early '70. I know that I could draw well from the time I was little.

And, have some project solutions that are not on paper, but still in my mind. And some projects still working on, in my mind also. Once I figure out what I want will just make them. Ah yes, just recalled - I need some strips of flexable material, about 1/16" by 1/16" (yes, the numbers are correct), to complete a project that I need to finish another project, that I need to finish yet another project. Wire, or even string, would work - except they are both round. I think I will have to eventually get some rubber gasket material, and cut strips from that, with an exacto knife, then super glue the strips in place.

I do not recall copying anything as is, I always make changes, on the other hand very seldom see anything I want to copy. I do make a partial exception with folding furniture - those I do follow the main components to insure the furniture will actually fold as intended, but do make shape changes in unessential areas (back, arms, legs, etc.), as well as decorations. I much prefer saving photos, and designing something from them.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-07-2020, 03:14 PM
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Leave it alone...if it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...

Loved the stories behind the projects...got a kick out of them...

I get your point about thinking about a project...design, layout, sketches...it's a lot of fun...

...but every once in a while, a quickie is just as good...

Nick

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-07-2020, 04:31 PM
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Among the doctors in my field (optometry and vision therapy) the ultimate objective is to have people learn to visualize and move things around in their mind's visual space. It can be acquired, but a few of us lucky people can do it naturally. It is usually marked by someone raised in an old time, try everything childhood. Radio listening really helps develop this ability.

One of the great therapists in the field called visualization the "crown jewel" of vision, and more than a few creative people can do that. For example, film directors. Most can "see" the finished film, in fact some won't even start a picture until they can visualize the whole thing. Alfred Hitchcock was famouse for this. His scripts were accompanied by hundreds of sketches of every single shot, often with every single sentence. Very often, he wouldn't allow even great actors to ad lib or perform in a way he hadn't already planned.

The neuro scientists are just begining to learn what portions of the brain perform these functions, but there are at least 22 distinct areas (structures) in the brain that are involved in normal visual processing. It isn't the eyes that see, it's the brain, or rather, the person, who sees based on input to the brain from all the senses. That's why you can picture the setting of a good radio broadcast. Wanna try it, find an old 1940sp-50s radio show. You will probably get a mental picture. Those of us who had that experience have stronger visualization ability than those who missed out.

Most people expect mental images to look just like a picture of an object, but it is ephemeral, not solid and you have to attend to it to take it in. My mental imagery flashes in and out.

Remember the IQ test where you had a series of blocks set at angles and you were asked to pick which of 4 or 5 pictures was the same as the first but rotated? If you can do that, you get an extra five IQ points. Well, that's a solid form of what Theo is talking about. It is also very helpful to have many experiences of objects and perception of space they occur in. I developed an activity designed to feed many pictures into the brain so the person gradually develops visualization ability and widens their development of story telling and writing as well.

Not all creative people are able to visualize the finished result before they start, in fact some depend on happy accidents. Jackson Pollock comes to mind with his drip paintings, which if you ever see one, are fascinating and supremely accidental.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Ae_CWxCZOS8

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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1. Among the doctors in my field (optometry and vision therapy) the ultimate objective is to have people learn to visualize and move things around in their mind's visual space. It can be acquired, but a few of us lucky people can do it naturally. It is usually marked by someone raised in an old time, try everything childhood. Radio listening really helps develop this ability.

2. One of the great therapists in the field called visualization the "crown jewel" of vision, and more than a few creative people can do that. For example, film directors. Most can "see" the finished film, in fact some won't even start a picture until they can visualize the whole thing. Alfred Hitchcock was famouse for this. His scripts were accompanied by hundreds of sketches of every single shot, often with every single sentence. Very often, he wouldn't allow even great actors to ad lib or perform in a way he hadn't already planned.

3. The neuro scientists are just begining to learn what portions of the brain perform these functions, but there are at least 22 distinct areas (structures) in the brain that are involved in normal visual processing. It isn't the eyes that see, it's the brain, or rather, the person, who sees based on input to the brain from all the senses. That's why you can picture the setting of a good radio broadcast. Wanna try it, find an old 1940sp-50s radio show. You will probably get a mental picture. Those of us who had that experience have stronger visualization ability than those who missed out.

4. Most people expect mental images to look just like a picture of an object, but it is ephemeral, not solid and you have to attend to it to take it in. My mental imagery flashes in and out.

5. Remember the IQ test where you had a series of blocks set at angles and you were asked to pick which of 4 or 5 pictures was the same as the first but rotated? If you can do that, you get an extra five IQ points. Well, that's a solid form of what Theo is talking about. It is also very helpful to have many experiences of objects and perception of space they occur in. I developed an activity designed to feed many pictures into the brain so the person gradually develops visualization ability and widens their development of story telling and writing as well.

6. Not all creative people are able to visualize the finished result before they start, in fact some depend on happy accidents. Jackson Pollock comes to mind with his drip paintings, which if you ever see one, are fascinating and supremely accidental.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Ae_CWxCZOS8
Interesting, to say the least.

1. I really do not know if it is natural with me, or i picked it up. Definitely raised a few days ago, and us kids even made a lot of our own toys. But don't know how much radio had to do with it. Didn't listen to much radio, until we moved about 5 miles, just outside a bit larger town. No kids to play with, except 1 neighbor kid I could not stand. Did start listening to the radio, but don't recall visualizing any of the programs. BUT, the town had a library. Smallish to be sure, in someone's house, but packed with story books. I believe I was the only person allowed to take out more than 3 books at a time. Ever Saturday I left with around 12 books, brought them back the following Saturday, all read, including 20,000 Under The Sea, not a small book. With them I could visualize the story - one reason I love books, instead of visualizing something the author wrote I visualize what I think of it as. Very unlike movies where you are stuck with someone else's visualization.

2. I don't direct movies, but can follow one of my projects all the way in my mind.

3. Yeah, I can see the radio shows working, but still think it was the books for me. I just cannot recall visualizing any of the shows, only books.

4. Never really thought about it, but do not think my images look like an actual piece. More like a detailed drawing.

5. Had a different type of IQ test, in the Army. Lost points because had some idjit right behind me, seriously distracting me.

6. Really, have never considered Jackson Pollock, or others with painting styles similar, as creative. There is an elephant that paints pictures, and they sell, that I consider as more creative. Reminds me of an "artist" in England, who got a ticket while "painting" a picture. He had laid out a long length of canvas in a driveway, dumped buckets of paint on it, then proceeded to drive back and forth in a car. He backed out in the road, just as a cop was going buy, and got a ticket, think it was driving without a license. He later cut up the canvas, and sold the pieces for $5,000 each (Don't know if that was US $ or UK). You may get the idea that I have no taste for "modern art", and you will be 100% correct. To me art is a painting or sculpture that is a representation of something, not a bunch of paint slathered around and called art. I would call cave drawings art, even tho it is crude, it is still a representation of real events, people, and animals.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2020, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Had planned on just showing you this photo, of two cane handle rough drafts. And then it got crazy.

The top handle I am reasonably sure came from me researching Egyptian hieroglyphics a bit back. A few weeks back grabbed a pencil and sketch pad. And proceeded to sketch the handle, with no thought involved, no visualization, involved, just put the pencil to the paper and viola. A LOT of my handle designs start the same way. In this instance you could definitely (or I could anyway) tell of the Egyptian influence. I wanted to keep the Egyptian influence, but just couldnt come up with something I liked. So, after several changes, was left with this. If I do it I will pretty much leave it as is - 3 nurses at the Wound Center like it, and thats good enough for me.

The second one, I wasn't thinking, just put pencil to paper, and there it was. I like it, and likely will eventually use it.

Then there is the other one. Same, pencil to paper. This one is a bit different tho. I'm thinking about using it for both a cane handle design, and a hook for my coat tree.

But today. I was sitting at the computer, when out of the blue, I suddenly knew how to make a different (likely better too) top for my coat tree design. Haven't even been thinking about a change. Then about 2 seconds later, zap, knew how to make a much simpler TP holder than the one I had designed. Again, had no plans to redo it. Don't know if the knew design is better, but it will sure look nicer.
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"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2020, 06:24 PM
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Hi, not to start an argument, however, standing in front of a Jackson Pollock drip painting, it was clearly an original work of art. Just a far different form than had ever occurred before. Which doesn't change anything you had to say about it, of course, but for me, it's still art.

You are lucky to have such clear, diagram level mental imagery. A few people have that ability and often make excellent engineers. I was just trying to share some of the informaiton I've learned about what you experience directly.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-09-2020, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Hi, not to start an argument, however, standing in front of a Jackson Pollock drip painting, it was clearly an original work of art. Just a far different form than had ever occurred before. Which doesn't change anything you had to say about it, of course, but for me, it's still art.

You are lucky to have such clear, diagram level mental imagery. A few people have that ability and often make excellent engineers. I was just trying to share some of the informaiton I've learned about what you experience directly.
Nah, no arguement. Just different tastes. You like it, I don't. I like a lot of things other people don't. I just never could wrap my mind around stuff like that.

When I was a kid, never even thought about it, thought everyone could do it. Only found out not so years later. As far as sharing information, share away. Some the things you said really surprised me, maybe because I just accepted it and never had thought of it before, and never ran across it in any of my reading - which is sort of a surprise in itself, considering some of the subjects I read about. By the way, if you ever get the chance to read a book on Forensic Pathology, don't. I got ahold of one during my reading period, and it had pictures, half of them color pictures, lots of pictures. After that I stuck to fun books, like black magic, voodoo, witchcraft, and so on, and no pictures. Vlad the Impaler was an interesting read.
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"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
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