The Argument Within.... (Warning: May Be Lengthy) - Page 4 - Router Forums
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-01-2020, 11:44 AM
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Barb:

Microsoft has stopped supporting Windows 7 completely but it is easily upgraded to Windows 10 assuming that the computer hardware can run it. I believe that Microsoft has a utility that can determine if it will install, not completely sure. I had an older computer that the windows 10 utility said would not run windows 10, but I formatted the hard drive, installed win 10 and updated the drivers for the computer and it works. Not the smoothest operating machine, but it worked.

Just my two cents.

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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-01-2020, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Barb:

Microsoft has stopped supporting Windows 7 completely but it is easily upgraded to Windows 10 assuming that the computer hardware can run it. I believe that Microsoft has a utility that can determine if it will install, not completely sure. I had an older computer that the windows 10 utility said would not run windows 10, but I formatted the hard drive, installed win 10 and updated the drivers for the computer and it works. Not the smoothest operating machine, but it worked.

Just my two cents.
Yeah.... I'm not interested in having to update a computer that: one: He put in his own Windows 7, and never bothered to fix it, and 2nd: This was a machine he built... there were other issues with this computer that didn't set right with me, and that's more things I have to put out to even get started. Bad enough I would have to try and raise the money.

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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-01-2020, 12:31 PM
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I certainly understand that! I'm still looking under the couch cushions for change to get the remainder of my stuff! I got a used computer to update and use with my machine.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin.
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-01-2020, 10:56 PM
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Barb, my opinion... leave it. It's not worth the hassle of what sounds like it has a little smell to it. To start from scratch with someone else's bits and pieces may be o.k. for a body that likes tech. but would likely consume more of your time away from what you actually love doing. Then you still have to cough up the cash. Wait for something that would be a little smoother to transition to.
Just my knee jerk thoughts. Best of luck.
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-02-2020, 09:04 PM
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I think that's a good decision Barb.
As a techie of many years, I'm surprised the interface is still 25-pin parallel port. That's a show-stopper in my books.
You can't guarantee that any daughter card that may be running it now will be Windows 10 compliant now or in the future, and new machines just don't come with it.

Unless there's a modern way to interface the system to the CNC it's not worth the pain.

Save your pennies and look around. Ken's still able to help you and do many other things yet I'm sure, so it's not something to panic over.
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-03-2020, 12:34 PM
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This is just my opinion on this system.

This might be old technology but there are a lot of CNC machines out there being run with a Windows XP or Windows 7 computer with a parallel port for the interface between the computer and the CNC machine.

Remember the only real job this computer has is to run the CNC machine using Mach3 and it is already configured for that purpose and is running that machine right now. There is no need to upgrade the Windows operating system. Actually I don't think you should have the control computer connected to the internet so it will not try to update. If it tries to connect to the internet while running a job that could cause problems. If it is not broken there is no need to fix it. You don't need to have your design software on the control computer but I do know it is convenient at times to have it available but it is not necessary. You can use a UC100 with the parallel port to use it with a USB port but there are possible problems running any CNC from a USB port especially with the power saving routines in Windows 10 that have been known to shut down the USB port in the middle of a job. Sometimes these settings are reset during a windows update. I see no advantage in changing anything having to do with this control computer setup.

The only thing I don't like is the CNC is a center screw-machine but many of the new hobby-level machines are center-screw machines and are still capable of producing quality work when run within the limits of the machine. That being said I own 4 center screw machines so I know they will do a good job.

Still looks like a good deal to me.

Remember, this is just my opinion.
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Last edited by MEBCWD; 10-03-2020 at 12:38 PM.
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-03-2020, 01:38 PM
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Barb,

If you end up getting a CNC, just change "hand made by me" to "Made in my home shop" and all will be fine, at least for that part of the problem.

As for the problems and short comings of that CNC machine, my personal thoughts are to go with something better and leave this one for the tinkerers. I'm an EE who has been creating CNC equipment for most of my working career. Old technology becomes very hard to support and upgrade, and replacement of "no longer available" parts can quickly become very expensive. If you aren't an EE or programmer, you will be much better off getting something new or close to it. At least then, you will get to use it a few years before expensive repairs or replacements are required.

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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-03-2020, 11:54 PM
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I agree, skip this machine.

What caught my attention is that Ken won't be able to work his job at some point, so I see the CNC as an opportunity for him to start the business side while you concentrate on learning the program and the machine. The cost of a new, complete machine, at least 4x4, is a business write off because you MUST take advantage of IRS schedule C to write off costs.

I have no doubt you will be up and running on basic signs PDQ (pretty damn quick) because you are both smart and determined. To me, the first decision is to make it a business, no a hobby you make a few bucks on. If you do that, then the cost of a machine becomes an entirely different thing, and the real expense will be if you cut corners then have to replace the thing.

Every time I look at CNC (it is intriguing), I come up with around $5,000 to get one that would allow me to run a small business with it, something that made decent money, more than a hobby. With Ken and you working together, I can see you executing a business plan really effectively. If it were me, I'd write a business plan, get bank financing set up, buy the unit and get some training (most makers have seminars and classes, plus online videos). To that end, I've attached a pdf of my thoughts about how I'd make a go of a CNC machine. But you know me, I constantly see opportunities for people to do what they love and make good money at it. So here's the pdf for your consideration. It could probably be converted into a business plan, and you can check some of the federal programs that are designed to help women start successful businesses. Borrow more than you need and keep a little reserve so you can make payments while you're learning. Start with simple stuff and follow the suggestions. Ken can do it while you still keep your job. Transition over time to reduce your risks.

The missing ingredient in any business is someone to do the marketing (see pdf) and sign up customers and long term clients. Focus on businesses run by women who need signs and appreciate doing business with other women. If you're interested in knowing more, I have many additional bits and pieces to add. Remember, until I retired, I was a $3,000 a day business consultant, mostly focused on marketing.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf __CNC marketing advice.pdf (25.6 KB, 3 views)

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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2020, 09:30 PM
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I can understand the thought of CNC’ing being cheating to a hobbyist. I can understand the fun (?) of that debate. Business? By definition is to make money. Turn a profit. If you make the MOST beautiful products, but lose money, you are a failure business wise. If you make the most ugly, shoddy, worthless goods, but turn a profit, you are successful business wise. Quite frankly our great forefathers were constantly seeking easier, faster ways of getting their work done. While I can appreciate the workmanship of many goods, generally it’s the final product I look at, and rate, to judge it’s value, not so much how it was made. I have no interest in going into the woods with a wheel barrel , cutting down trees with an ax, then cutting it up into smaller, more workable pieces, hauling it back to my shop, milling it, then air drying it, so I can use it in two years. I go to a lumber yard and buy what I need, easy peasy. long winded way of saying each hobbyist gets to decide what they want to do, how to do it, what makes them happy. Business?....... What was that line from the movie? SHOW ME THE MONEY. If you can swing the purchase, and it will make you a profit, then I would say that not doing so is unbusiness like. I’m kinda wondering that if you do get it, use it, you may start to really like it. Two years from now you could be making a post that goes “why did I wait so long” LOLOL I’m interested in following along with your journey.

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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-11-2020, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by artman60 View Post
If you can swing the purchase, and it will make you a profit, then I would say that not doing so is unbusiness like. I’m kinda wondering that if you do get it, use it, you may start to really like it. Two years from now you could be making a post that goes “why did I wait so long” LOLOL I’m interested in following along with your journey.
I really go back and forth on the subject, Artie. I go from one to the other, and yet, I know that since the [email protected]$$ season is well on it's way, it would be a good time for Ken to learn the machine, and yadda, yadda, ya. The biggest hurdle is getting the funding to do this; and yet, (here we go again) Ken and his situation almost mandates it. I have the free version of Aspire, but not being the interface that I'm used to, I'm having difficulty maneuvering around in it, to make what I want, which is also a struggle. Ah, well.

Of course, before we even do this, I have to get the space better utilized in the shop, which is a regular conversation Ken and I have. I need to make/purchase stands that take up less room, but will be multi-functional. In a perfect world, I would go out the shop, take inventory of the tools we have, make a plan for said tools, and create/purchase what would be the most advantageous for the shop in saving space, and functionality. However, we aren't in a perfect world, and when I get out to the shop, there are a million and one things to do, (usually things that include making sawdust, not organizing/planning) and so there we are, in the same boat we started in. Of course, sitting here, perusing around on the forums to see what's what, doesn't get anything done, either.... *shrug*

Currently, I'm working on the yard decorations for the front yard for Halloween. (Almost done. Two skeletons, a bigger black cat, and some bats to hang from the tree.) Next year, I'll do more gravestones, but Ken wanted some to light up this year, so we purchased some from Lowe's. Once done with those, I need to get to making the decorations to that go in the yard for that "other" holiday that people started talking about before September was over.

As for following me through the adventure... who knows: it may turn into one helluva rollercoaster ride, (as things never go smoothly like we plan.)
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Barb


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
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If you choose to poke at a bee hive, be prepared to get stung.

Last edited by OutoftheWoodwork; 10-11-2020 at 10:49 AM.
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