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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Default Ranch routing

Hello:

New here. I developed as a journeyman carpenter in the late 60's. Not really a hobbyist but respect all dimensions of authentic skill, including interpersonal communication concerning manual skills.

I am a ranch owner and use the shop in related projects. I joined to gain insight into incra's Clean Sweep pulling waste into the router body. I do not find any postings revealing the contamination/consequences of down-directing dust towards the motor confined in the CS' plastic enclosure. I did read a thread concerning dust collection enclosed/open although no one suggested contamination as an issue.

Let me know if there is something you can contribute to my understanding.

Thank you,

Jon
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 11:21 AM
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Hello and welcome to the router forum Jon

Looking forward to your participation.
Filling out your profile to include (first name,tools and short bio is strictly (optional )but does help members to better relate to each other.
Thank You John
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 11:56 AM
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If you had so much suction in an under table enclosure that it could push debris backwards through the router against the cooling fan's flow then I suspect the router would overheat and burn out within a matter of minutes. One of the issues with good dust collection is that you must have adequate air flow to float the particles into and down the DC pipe. A demonstration you may have seen is someone holding a ping pong ball in their hand and sticking a vacuum hose down over it tight against their palm and turning the vac on. Nothing happens. The ball stays in your hand because there is no air flow. The Clean Sweep rings address that issue by allowing more air to flow though without increasing the bit opening size which is why we use the insert rings to start with.

My preferred idea would be to take a half moon shaped pickup and put it under the table tight up against the router base. This would pick up 99% of any debris that goes downward while actually increasing the air flow going through the router.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 12:13 PM
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I have a similar Rockler box that pulls the dust down past the router, then out the back, not the bottom. I'm not very happy with it when used with the Triton TRA001, which tends to blow the sawdust upward. After reading more I believe the better solution is above table sawdust removal through the fence. The more powerful the removal airflow, the better. I only know about the 1617 and Triton in this box. I didn't have much problem with the Bosch and the Triton is set up to keep sawdust away. Some sawdust is likely to end up in the box no matter how much I try to extract it from the top. I have considered, but not yet set up so the fence gets a 4 inch hose and the box gets a 2.5 inch rather than the reverse. The good point about the Incra box is that it lets gravity assist the dust removal by putting the port on the bottom, so you won't get as much buildup as with the Rockler box.

The thing I don't like is that the Triton is pretty beefy sized, and it's a tight fit in the Rockler box, which is slightly larger than the Incra box. If you ever decide to go for a larger hp router for the table, the size of the box will be problematic. I didn't anticipate that issue, thought I'd always use the 1617s in the table. But Harry Sinclair's praise for the Triton won me over. It is nice to have that extra power on the table and the built in lift is really nice.

Your fence system will be important for above table sawdust removal. It has to have openings of some sort to attach the DC hose.

Charles' suggestion is also very good and certainly couldn't hurt.

Hope this is helpful.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 03:20 PM
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Glad you picked up on this, I have said for years the router enclosed in a box is going to suck dust through the bottom of the router and blow through the router to cool the motor. That is why I followed the design of having the router stick through the bottom of the box to draw clean air and the DC can pull air out the side if the box. Stick486 has a great idea too of installing a short flex to the bottom of the router that goes through the bottom of the box to allow the router motor to draw clean air.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Stoops View Post
Glad you picked up on this, I have said for years the router enclosed in a box is going to suck dust through the bottom of the router and blow through the router to cool the motor. That is why I followed the design of having the router stick through the bottom of the box to draw clean air and the DC can pull air out the side if the box. Stick486 has a great idea too of installing a short flex to the bottom of the router that goes through the bottom of the box to allow the router motor to draw clean air.
Herb
what happened to the thread on this..
couldn't find it...

gave up looking and made up a new post....

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 12-12-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 04:53 PM
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Default Venting a router table's motor w/ DC

This is by Stick486

one very important thing you have to remember is to make sure your router box is vented w/ outside air for the motor or you will cook the motor from excessive heat because of the lack of cooling air for the motor...
do this by either sticking the motor's air intake outside of the box or add a ''snorkel'' to the end of router motor...

This is by Herb Stoops...

That is a good point, Stick,I let the router protrude through the bottom of the box. By doing so I had to cut out the bottom to clear the posts for the Jessem lift. I like Stick's idea better to clamp a flex hose around the router and let it protrude thru the bottom of the box to allow the motor to suck clean air. I also have an adjustable port in the side of the box to allow more air into the box to create a maximum air flow thru the box.

In my first router table I had the Milwaukee router, it was a real workhorse, the reason I bought the Milwaukee was at that time it was one of the few routers you could adjust the height from the top of the table. I didn't have a dust collection under the table at that time and could reach under,unlatch the router and do the adjustment from the top ,then reach under and lock the router. But the amount of chips and dust that ended up under the table was a large amount. The fence dust collection just couldn't get half the chips.

I also doored the router box for easy access to the router and the lift...
Stick did the same and he installed vents in his door..

Under table DC is a must, I branch off a 4" dia. with a 2 1/2" to the fence and a 4" to the under table box.

Herb

This is by Stick486

Now for Plan ''C''.....

A closed dust collector box keeps the inside of the table's router box at negative pressure. Which limits air flow and to some extent, deprives the motor of cooling air flowing through the motor. This fosters a condition where the router motor will overheat.

Building a box enclosing the lift/router motor that allows for elevation changes and provides make up air porting, allows the DC's air to flow at optimum efficiency.

Adding a large square boot, (4'' outlet minimum), centered to the router motor, on the bottom of the box dedicates DC.

Now, cooling airflow to the motor.
Adding a ''snorkel'' made of plastic or metal to the end of the router motor, of sufficient length to protrude outside of the box, irrespective of motor elevation, would ensure fresh air cooling to the motor.
This snorkel/tube/sleeve goes right through the dust collector boot (you would need to cut a hole in the boot for integration). It allows the motor to draw clean outside air for cooling. HEAT will destroy your motor in very short order without good clean airflow.

When you attach the snorkel to motor make sure you don't cover/seal the air inlet vanes.
Round routers only need a round tube. Oversize the tube and use a reducing bushing with an ID to fit your motor.

Square ended router motors need a little more creativity. There are a host of square to round PVC adapters found in the “Big Box” chain stores' plumbing departments and they are also used in storm water drainage systems. Fernco also makes an extensive product line. In addition, look to vinyl guttering components. Also, don't skip by the HVAC section either. There is a vast variety of adapters available. There isn't anything saying that you can't use a length of square tube. There are a host DC fittings that may work. You could even fix the tube aka snorkel to the bottom of the box and let the router motor slide freely up and down in the tube.

Now, as to the mounting. There are several options available; hose clamps, Velcro or mechanical (screws, nutserts, etc.). Mechanical method would be preferred if you have a thick motor cap and there's clearance under the cap, to give the end of your mechanical fastener room and it won't damage anything.

Velcro; for that to work, (slide on - slide off can be tad difficult) barrier the hooks and loops w/ a plastic putty knife(s). Set the snorkel. Remove the putty knife(s).
To separate the H&L to remove the snorkel, slide/work the putty knife(s) in between the H&L to release one from the other.) Remove the snorkel.

Notes:
An open bottom box won't work all that well if there are drawers under the router box, nor will the snorkel through bottom or a bottom mounted DC boot unless they are designed into the table. Venting and DC will work if installed through the back or side of the box. Whatever you do, you need to arrange for make up air (venting/cooling) and pickup for for the DC simultaneously. There many variables here but all in all this should give you plenty of ideas to work w/ for/on a finished system that will work well for you.
Take this link to the thread

.
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This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 12-12-2018 at 06:23 PM.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 07:25 PM
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Welcome aboard. I've got a quite small shop, so don't have room for much in the way of dust collection. My routers are used in a table, with no dust collection. I sit while working with it, and get dust blown on the top, and in my lap. I've opened my routers, and found no dust whatsoever, not in the router at least, a lot elsewhere.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 08:05 AM
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My cheapie router has a dust collection port - kinda like a half donut cup around the bit. I don't expect that router to last, so I like Stick's pics of collecting from the base area or Chuck's 1/2 moon idea. I'll have to keep those in mind for the future.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 08:19 AM
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This simple arrangement works well for me with the current Triton TRA001.
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