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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-08-2019 05:36 PM
vchiarelli
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgcz75b View Post

"But this Laguna is made in Italy!" he said.

Tired of his over-the top sales pitch I replied, "So is Fiat and Mussolini - that didn't turn out well, did it?"
I was made in Italy too, and I find your response hilarious.

BTW - I like your signature. I too was in law enforcement for 25 years - used to say "if stupidity was against the law, the jails would be full"
03-08-2019 05:25 PM
sgcz75b Wednesday, when I went to a store to look at bandsaws but wound up buying a dust collector, one of the salesmen was aghast that I was considering a Grizzly compared to his personal Italian Laguna.

He trotted out all his best tricks, several times mentioning the high-style of the Italian Laguna and asked if I knew that Grizzly was made in Taiwan. I told him I did.

"But this Laguna is made in Italy!" he said.

Tired of his over-the top sales pitch I replied, "So is Fiat and Mussolini - that didn't turn out well, did it?"
03-08-2019 12:04 PM
sreilly Tom,

Most heart hardedly agree that DC should be a top priority in any shop and the lack there of should be discussed. But at the same time comparing costs while fruggle is good it shouldn't be the only determining factor. As you well know the cost of not doing due diligence is much higher than most of us want to admit and unfortunately it usually is after it's too late that the issue gets any real attention. When I explored my needs I used calculations based on what experts said were needed for my space. There are excellent books out there that cover this very well. As you also pointed out there are woods and other materials that are a higher concern than our "normal" woods. I recently worked with some Cambia for the 1st time and read all the warnings related to that wood. Every piece of DC equipment was used as were the masks. The sawdust off this 6/4 Cambia was as fine as cocoa and very easily airborne. Eye protection was a must as well. To see just what was caught in the air filtration system was amazing as it just didn't seem to be that bad when working with it. Imagine those sharp edged particles in you eyes and lungs. MDF makes the same mess when cut.

Most of these units are rated for area that they will be covering. It may be needed to have multiple units for some large shops and they need proper maintenance to function properly and filter changes when needed. And just like my HVAC customers before retiring,don't skimp on the filters as they are the heart of the system and determine if the system is truly doing the job it was designed to do. Don't forget to clean the bags as well. Out of sight, out of mind. There are simple water gauges use can install on both sides of the filters to show you when they need changing. They read the static pressure difference. Basically you're not moving the full volume of air if the filters are clogged up. And for that matter you should inspect and clean the squirrel cage fan when there's any buildup of dirt on them as that changes the fan air curve as well and reduces flow. A very early lesson in my HVAC career was when I was working on a 30 ton air handler at the phone company. This system had 2" pleated pre-filters and 4" pleated filters. The complaint was it was stuffy and the fan was running constantly. I went up and looked at the air handler and it sounded OK but the amp draw on them motor was way low. I turned the fan off to look inside. My 1st thought was a frozen or blocked coil which was technically correct but it wasn't frozen over, or a dirty coil, or obstructed by anything physically on it. I pulled one of the 4" filters and looked, not too bad but probably could use changing, there were only 16 of them. For some reason I closed the door, turned the fan motor back on, and took another amp reading across all 3 legs. Still low but this time I tried to open the filter door with the motor running and I had to put my foot on the unit and use all I had to open the door. I'm not a small out of shape person, at least not back then. The air rushed in taking my by surprise. I took more amp readings and they were where they should be. Another shutdown and now I pulled the pre-filters. They looked as if they were solid core. A quick trip to the supply room and several boxes of filters was what it needed to get the airflow back to normal. You really don't want 40 females complaining about their comfort level, actually about anything....

So it behooves us to look at our shop, take some measurements and see what we need. If you're unsure call the company or look on their website for proper use and sizing. If it isn't there and they can't advise you I suspect you have the wrong company, call someone else. While agree price is important, and I do research almost every tool I buy to make sure I'm getting a good deal, almost too much sometimes. But I want quality, reliability, and support. It should do what it's designed to without fuss and be serviceable. And when it comes to air quality it not only you but your family as well, like 2nd hand smoke. Tom has given you more then enough real life reasons to follow through.
03-08-2019 10:54 AM
DesertRatTom
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAD-Man View Post
Tom I'm confused, the Wen Air Filtration system shows 3 speed 300, 350, or 400 CFM. The JET Air Filtration system show 3 speed 556 / 702 / 1044 CFM. Unless I'm looking at the incorrect JET Air Filtration system, the JET at it's lowest setting has more CFM then the WEN at the highest setting. I'm not cutting down the WEN, I have the same one but with Grizzly's name on it, my shop is small so it's what works for me.
My youngest son has the JET Air Filtration system for his big shop, but I did notice that the JET is on the noisy side because of the larger squirrel cage fan.

CAD-Man
When I compared the stats on the two, they were about the same, but that's several years ago. Not sure if increased CFPM is good, or worth the price difference. My shops are small, so the WEN works perfectly well when I run them for four hours. Could be that the increased air flow would stir up settled sawdust to be filtered, but only if the unit runs for several hours at a time.

I advocate for the WEN filter and the HF DC unit because they are decent machines and more affordable than the big name brands. The point is to encourage spending $300-$400 for aceptable dust collection rather than face $800-$1,000 for brand name DC and filters. I think that high price point causes people to NOT have any DC in their shops, or to try to make do with home made solutions that really don't work that well. Let's be honest, how many folks would rather spend that on a better saw or other great tool?

I'm a throat cancer survivor. Some wood is carcinogenic and you don't want any of that stuff in your lungs. And COPD will definitely kill your buzz.
03-07-2019 03:16 PM
CAD-Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRatTom View Post
The next step is a hanging filter with timer that will clean the ambient air. The WEN unit I have is working really well, and is far less than the JET with exactly the same hp and filtration. I have two. Surprising how well they work. Hang them near a wall so they set up a gradual cirular air flow. Cleaning my shop always ends with 4 hours of this filter running. Same filter set as the JET, BTW.
Tom I'm confused, the Wen Air Filtration system shows 3 speed 300, 350, or 400 CFM. The JET Air Filtration system show 3 speed 556 / 702 / 1044 CFM. Unless I'm looking at the incorrect JET Air Filtration system, the JET at it's lowest setting has more CFM then the WEN at the highest setting. I'm not cutting down the WEN, I have the same one but with Grizzly's name on it, my shop is small so it's what works for me.
My youngest son has the JET Air Filtration system for his big shop, but I did notice that the JET is on the noisy side because of the larger squirrel cage fan.

CAD-Man
03-07-2019 01:52 PM
sgcz75b
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRatTom View Post
The next step is a hanging filter with timer that will clean the ambient air. The WEN unit I have is working really well, and is far less than the JET with exactly the same hp and filtration. I have two. Surprising how well they work. Hang them near a wall so they set up a gradual cirular air flow. Cleaning my shop always ends with 4 hours of this filter running. Same filter set as the JET, BTW.
Tom,

I'm curious. My shop is in my heated garage. Usually, at the end of working in the shop for the day, I open the garage door nearest my tools and using my leaf blower start at the back of the shop and work my way to the front. As well during the day one of the garage doors is opened several times to drive out or in.

Would such a hanging filter (my garage is 30 x 25 with half being workshop) still benefit me since I'm getting regular air exchanges, particularly with the Jet DC?
03-07-2019 09:16 AM
DesertRatTom The next step is a hanging filter with timer that will clean the ambient air. The WEN unit I have is working really well, and is far less than the JET with exactly the same hp and filtration. I have two. Surprising how well they work. Hang them near a wall so they set up a gradual cirular air flow. Cleaning my shop always ends with 4 hours of this filter running. Same filter set as the JET, BTW.
03-07-2019 08:26 AM
sreilly Good deal Steve. Seems to be one of the things most people put off. Having had enough exposure to people who hadn't I decided it was my top priority before setting up shop to do any real work. The DC that I got with my Shopsmith was OK but not going to work as well as I needed so I did get the fine cloth bag which I think is 1-2 rated versus the 5 bag that came with it. That helps but then I went and installed a central unit (CV1800) that I could directly hook up to all my equipment and just open/close blast gates. It truly sucks and now I do a minor amount of vacuuming at the end of a session (Yes I do sessions...) OK maybe not the type I should be getting these days but ......it makes my significant better half happy, a lesson I seem to be learning from Colin.

A good friend who is a captain on the city police department and lives just up the road from me has his own detached workshop and spending a few days at his place working on some cabinets (a part-time income source making cabinets and such before he was promoted and his shifts/hours changed) and his not even turning on the DC taught me a good deal. I wore my mask but he just ploughed through the work. Seems the DC filters would clog and I suggested there was a problem with the cyclone getting air from an unknown source such as the container. Rather than work on it it simply hangs there. It was too much for me even with the garage door to the shop being opened so I wore my EZ mask. I have 4 approaches to sawdust which include using at least one if not more of these 4 devices. I have the CV1800 piped to central locations as well as hooked up to the major machines (table saw and router table) with drops in areas where I roll machines such as bandsaw, drum sander, planner, and so on. The miter saw station is not yet connected as I'm still considering the best way to collect that sawdust but I have a 6" blast gate with dual 4" drops to deal with that. That's my main system. Then the next most used is the Jet ceiling hung unit for fine airborne sawdust that double filters the air and has a remote switch. The final 2 are portable units being the Shopsmith DC and the old but still very usable wet/dry vac. These come in very handy for tools that have dust ports like the ROS, router with the Oneida fitting, track saw, and Domino. Out of all of them I'd say the Sears shop vac is the loudest so I use it the least. I built a closet around the CV1800 and used sound insulation to damper that noise which works very well. The tool is usually the loudest at that point. But ear protection is worn regardless. I can always pretend I didn't hear something but I prefer to hear......what dear?
03-06-2019 09:55 PM
DesertRatTom Smart move Steve. Spent the day Tuesday with some lung doctors, and they were very curious about my dust collection history. I guess they see a lot of COPD patients who have been careless about it. Moving the DC outside is a really good idea if there is any way to do that. Thanks for paying attention. A few years without a decent DC system, is enough to cause permanent breathing problems, and OSHA said home shops are far worse for sawdust than commercial shops. Wear a good mask anyhow. I bet that jet looks nifty in your shop. That pretty, off white paint job is nice.
03-06-2019 05:54 PM
sgcz75b
Went to look look at Band saws, bought a dust collector instead

I'm still going to get a bandsaw, but today I bought a Jet Vortex dust collector in 220, 2 hp with a 2-micron cartridge filter. I've been listening to Desert Rat Tom and decided to have my DC in place before taking delivery of the bandsaw.

Jet has a 10% off across the board on all power tools until March 11, plus the five-year warranty on the DC, made it the right deal for me.

So thanks to DRT for encouraging me to get a good DC and use it without fail.

Steve

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