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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-01-2019 12:16 PM
Cherryville Chuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biagio View Post
@Cherryville Chuck ,
What is your take on the common self-threading screws nowadays, compared to the older tapered slot-head wood screws? When they first became common some thirty years ago, I remember a lot of old hands in the British woodwork mags muttering darkly about them not working in hard timbers, snapping off, not holding, etc. but either the screws have improved, or the predictions were too Cassandra-like.
I still drill pilot holes and counter sinks, but do not miss drilling the clearance for the shaft of the screw.
+1 for square drive, vs Philips or Pozi.
I like the self drilling type screws but the hardest thing I've driven them into that I can remember is some 30 year old D fir floor joists and they went into those like butter. If I were using long screws and going into something really hard like maple or white oak I think I would still drill a pilot. A self drilling point is not the same as a pilot hole and often, especially in hard woods, a screw driven into a pilot hole may hold better because only the threads are cutting into the wood where without it the screw may be resisting going down and is damaging the fiber from the action of trying to force the point down deeper. You see the same action when you start many screws. They will start to bite but then rip out the the few threads they've cut until you get a little deeper and there is enough friction with the sides of the hole to keep it forcing down.

Along the same lines of thought, Lee Valley sells kits (drill bit and tap) for drilling and threading wood with machine screws as opposed to wood screws. I've done this a few times in particular when replacing small brass screws on the escutcheons of antique furniture. Their trials have shown that machine threads in threaded holes hold at least as well as threads cut by a wood screw. My experiences say that's correct. I've never had a machine screw pull back out yet in 20 years or so that I've been doing that.

Someone else mentioned removing old screws. I've probably done a few thousand square drives that in some cases were so rusty that the shaft was about to rust through. I haven't used any torx for that long so I can't speak for how well they'll come out later. If they've been painted over or if the heads are really rusty then you may need to take a pick and clean out the socket first but most are removable. I've also used square drives to make threads for the crappy Phillips head screws that come with things like bathroom towel holders so that you can sink them without stripping them on the way in. I've used the same screw to make a dozen holes and they are often still okay even after being driven and removed that many times, something that is impossible with even a really good quality Phillips like a drywall screw for example.
07-01-2019 09:22 AM
st8yd The square drive has been popular in FL with deck screws for many years and Torx is starting to take over it.
I hate slot head wood screws and throw every one of them I cross in the trash!
I will take the Torx over the square and the square over the phillips (which I really don't care much for anymore)
They are fine going in but how do they come out years down the road exposed to weather, the torx seems to be best and lucky if you get a phillips out.
07-01-2019 09:01 AM
Biagio @Cherryville Chuck ,
What is your take on the common self-threading screws nowadays, compared to the older tapered slot-head wood screws? When they first became common some thirty years ago, I remember a lot of old hands in the British woodwork mags muttering darkly about them not working in hard timbers, snapping off, not holding, etc. but either the screws have improved, or the predictions were too Cassandra-like.
I still drill pilot holes and counter sinks, but do not miss drilling the clearance for the shaft of the screw.
+1 for square drive, vs Philips or Pozi.
06-30-2019 02:40 AM
JOAT Made the decision. Going cordless. only under special conditions. One of my on-going projects will use a one cylinder engine. Not about to yank a pull cord anymore to start it, and not about to lay out that much cash for an electric start. Instead will go the K.I.S.S. route. Going to get a HF battery powered drill, with a 18V lithium battery, they're listed for about $25. I'll use a socket with it and use that to crank the engine. Not to the stage where I will need it yet, and that is the only cordless batter powered tool I'm planning on getting. Thought you had me converted, didn't ya? Hehehe
06-29-2019 10:52 PM
DesertRatTom Once I bought the first 18v Dewalt and some spare batteries, I started buying the "naked" tools without extra batteries.

I would have gone with Bosch because every one of their tools I do have is superb, accurate, holds adjustment, has more than sufficient power. 1617s, Compound Sliding Miter, ROS, lots of bits, blades and lots of accessories that are all top notch, and easy to find replacement and parts, customer service that's outstanding.

I am not dissatisfied in any way with the DeWalt 18v system, and at least they have provided a 20v upgrade path, which is a nice thing. I just recently found DeWalt batteries on sale, two for $99, so I'm fully committed for another several years, since I'm 76, someone is likely to inherit them because they'll outlast me. The DeWalt drills also have torque adjustments (I have two).

I found a paint covered 18 v DeWalt battery laying in the street I live on. Works great and is fairly new. So I'm really charged up.
06-29-2019 03:56 PM
Cherryville Chuck Square drive is gaining popularity in the US but is competing against Torx. Here in Canada where Robertson hailed from it's a different story. Many small hardware stores and the Home Hardware chain sell them bulk in bins like nails. My local store sells them for $3.99 a pound in zinc (gold coloured) coated and they are nice and sharp, unlike the Spar pack types which need a starter hole to drive easily. Ceramic coated ACQ compatible deck screws are $5.99/lb. McFeely's is one place you can order them from down there. https://www.mcfeelys.com/square_drive_screw Once you use them you will want to throw away all the Phillips drive ones you have. The square drive is such a positive engagement that it is quite easy to snap the heads off when screwing into hard woods like white oak or hard maple so care needs to be taken and starter holes drilled and countersinks should also be considered.

I've recently started using GRK screws for some projects and I really like them and they use a T-15 torx driver. They have better weather resistance and I think they are also compatible with ACQ treated lumber. HD carries them: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware...5yc1vZc255Z8ta They have a self drilling tip so they drive really easy, but they are also more expensive that Robertson's are up here.

Robertson and Phillips (the phillips head drive inventor) both worked for Henry Ford. Up to the time Robertson invented his drive type in 1908 there were only slotted types. Henry wanted Robertson to hand over the patent and Robertson told him to pound sand. Then Phillips invented his drive and he did turn the patent over to Henry. The Phillips drive was actually better for the auto industry as you can't over tighten them like you can a square drive. The head will strip first as you pointed out. I believe that Henry was able to keep Robertson's screws from being sold in the US until fairly recently. I asked a hardware store owner who was in his 60s back in Portland in about '74 for them and he just gave me a puzzled look and they had been around for over 60 years at the time.
06-29-2019 02:40 PM
Navyblue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
Switch over to Robertson square drive or Torx drive and you won't want or need to change tools. https://www.amazon.com/robertson-scr...bertson+screws
https://www.amazon.com/Wood-Screw-Dr.../dp/B01HDT1CPW
As a matter of fact I have acquired a box of Bosch impact bits set that contains those two types, just that I don't have any screws to try them on. From the look of it seems to be Torx is easier to get hold of for me.
06-29-2019 02:24 PM
honesttjohn My 18v Milwaukees have settings on them to increase or decrease power - or torque. Love em
06-29-2019 02:21 PM
Cherryville Chuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue View Post
So I got married to the Bosch 18V system.

I got myself a rotary hammer, impact wrench, circular saw, and a finishing sander. Now I have more cordless tools than corded.

The cordless freedom is nice, just yesterday I was sanding my ceiling on a ladder, job would be a lot less enjoyable if the tool had a long tail.

The rotary hammer and impact wrench though, I am not so sure if i made the right choice.

I put a 3/8 multi material bit that I thought was dull on the rotary hammer, it turns out it wasn't so dull after all. Perhaps my old drill was under powered. But the thing is so long and heavy that I can't imagine drilling hundreds of pilot screw hole with it.

As for the impact wrench, may be it was too powerful? It has 2200 inch lb of torque on paper. It is neither smaller nor lighter than my drill. I find that if I don't put enough pressure on it, during the pre hammer stage I can strip small philips screws just as easily as a drill. It has a higher RPM than a drill, but no clutch. I don't deal with screws longer than 2" so I question the point of all that speed and torque. I am thinking of selling it and replacing with a weaker impact driver or even a regular clutched drill.
Switch over to Robertson square drive or Torx drive and you won't want or need to change tools. https://www.amazon.com/robertson-scr...bertson+screws
https://www.amazon.com/Wood-Screw-Dr.../dp/B01HDT1CPW
06-29-2019 02:12 PM
Navyblue
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRatTom View Post
I have all DeWalt stuff but if I had it to do over again, it would be all Bosch.
May I ask why do you think that though?

My impression from reading between the lines, is that Dewalt tools are generally more powerful, and may resist abuse better. For Bosch, it seems that their battery are top quality and last long. In the past Bosch means reliability. These days their tools seems to be somewhat cheaper than their peers, I am not sure what this means.

What is interesting for me is, In the US their tools has 3 years warranty. In China where many of them come from, blue Bosch has only 12 months warranty. In Malaysia (another major source) blue Bosch has a whopping 6 months warranty. What does that say about their confidence in their own product lol.

In the German speaking world, Bosch is still regarded as king though. I asked my European friend what he thinks of Bosch, his reply was "standard quality". I suspect it is his polite way of saying the brands from other countries are sub standard.

Ultimately what pushed me to Bosch was their price. And it doesn't hurt that they are in navy blue.

At the moment I am still looking for a drill and may be an impact driver. On this aspect Bosch's offering seem to be somewhat lackluster apart from price. So I am sort of still flirting with the others despite being married to Bosch 18V.
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