Workbench Tenon Length? - Router Forums
 8Likes
  • 4 Post By Cherryville Chuck
  • 2 Post By DesertRatTom
  • 1 Post By jemangin
  • 1 Post By Ray Newman
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Gaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Peter
Posts: 599
 
Default Workbench Tenon Length?

See attached photo.
I'm making a woodworkers workbench, my first. The bench is based on this Instructables design. Building a Real Woodworker's Workbench: 32 Steps (with Pictures)
Instead of mortise and tenon joinery he uses threaded rod with nuts on the ends to pull the whole base, frame together. I intend to use mortise and tenon joinery instead. In his design he has the stretchers positioned in the middle of the legs.
The legs will be 100 x 100 PAR and the long and short stretchers will be 50 x 100 PAR. I'm not going to be able to use the rule of 3rds for the length of the tenons. So how long and also how thick should I make the tenons, to insure maximum structural integrity of the workbench?
I'll be using 100 x 100 " green split centre free " sawn Redwood, unsorted is the best grade. Green doesn't mean the Redwood hasn't been air or kiln dried.
Cheers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	A.jpg
Views:	283
Size:	51.3 KB
ID:	278705  

Gaia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 06:00 PM
Moderation Team
 
Cherryville Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
First Name: Charles
Posts: 14,995
 
Default

Peter anytime lumber is described as green it usually means that it hasn't been dried. Redwood wouldn't be my first choice for a stretcher. It's a soft wood that is normally used for outdoor applications because of its weather resistance. It can also resist glue adhesion because of its natural oiliness. IMO pine or D. Fir would be better and maybe cheaper. Redwood tends to command a good price here.

I used the bolt and cross dowel for my own workbench and it has worked perfectly for around 25 years. It's much simpler and offers the option to tighten it later if needed. A glued tenon joint doesn't give and racking forces can break them loose, something you wouldn't have to worry about with the cross dowel and bolt. Joints that get stressed are often better with mechanical fasteners.
Gaia, jj777746, MYB506 and 1 others like this.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
Cherryville Chuck is online now  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 10:53 AM
Forum Contributor
 
DesertRatTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Tom
Posts: 16,081
 
Default

I agree that redwood is way to soft for this use. The racking force of, say, hand planing might not affect the glue, but could very easily tear the soft wood apart at the joint. I would at least use Douglas Fir but better yet, some harder wood. Many high grade work benches use Maple. Having both an end and a front mounted vise is a really good idea.

The thickness of the top increases the hold of dog hole clamps and increases the mass so the table stays put. That design should last you 150 years or so.
Gaia and ggom like this.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
DesertRatTom is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 02:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Country: Canada
First Name: Jamie
Posts: 71
 
Default

These are the bench bolts(Lee Valley)Veritas® Special Bench Bolts - Lee Valley Tools recommended by Chris Schwarz in his simpler bench designs.

For my bench refurbish I used through tenons made of Douglas fir and double wedged them so I could tighten it when it gets loose and break it down if necessary.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC05381.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	756.9 KB
ID:	278858  

Attached Images
 
Gaia likes this.
jemangin is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 03:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
First Name: Ray
Posts: 374
 
Default

As the poster is in the UK, wonder if he is referring to "European Redwood" -- Pinus Sylvestris -- a member of the pine family? Seems it is also called "Scots Pine."

European Redwood | Bryceland Timber ? Total Timber Solutions ? Timber, Flooring, Doors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_pine
Gaia likes this.
Ray Newman is online now  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Gaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Peter
Posts: 599
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
Peter anytime lumber is described as green it usually means that it hasn't been dried. Redwood wouldn't be my first choice for a stretcher. It's a soft wood that is normally used for outdoor applications because of its weather resistance. It can also resist glue adhesion because of its natural oiliness. IMO pine or D. Fir would be better and maybe cheaper. Redwood tends to command a good price here.

I used the bolt and cross dowel for my own workbench and it has worked perfectly for around 25 years. It's much simpler and offers the option to tighten it later if needed. A glued tenon joint doesn't give and racking forces can break them loose, something you wouldn't have to worry about with the cross dowel and bolt. Joints that get stressed are often better with mechanical fasteners.
The description green split center free might just be the English way of describing and in fact timber is properly kiln/air dried. I'll check and let you know. I have a 40mm Beech work top, in Europe Beech is quite a popular choice for commercial bench makers as relatively cheap and available. I'm thinking of going for Beech rather than the Redwood. I've also decided to use the original design of using threaded rod and nuts to hold frame together. I only started to think about M/T as other people said too. Starts to differ from the plan and starts getting..... complicated.Tendon going into the legs in the design I mention, won't be the 2/3 long and consequently I don't think they would be as robust as needs be.
Gaia is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Gaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Peter
Posts: 599
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRatTom View Post
I agree that redwood is way to soft for this use. The racking force of, say, hand planing might not affect the glue, but could very easily tear the soft wood apart at the joint. I would at least use Douglas Fir but better yet, some harder wood. Many high grade work benches use Maple. Having both an end and a front mounted vise is a really good idea.

The thickness of the top increases the hold of dog hole clamps and increases the mass so the table stays put. That design should last you 150 years or so.
I know Maple is a very popular choice for benches in the States for the same reasons that Beech is used in Europe, UK.
Thanks for your reply.
Gaia is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Gaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Peter
Posts: 599
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jemangin View Post
These are the bench bolts(Lee Valley)Veritas® Special Bench Bolts - Lee Valley Tools recommended by Chris Schwarz in his simpler bench designs.

For my bench refurbish I used through tenons made of Douglas fir and double wedged them so I could tighten it when it gets loose and break it down if necessary.
OK thanks.
Gaia is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Gaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United Kingdom
First Name: Peter
Posts: 599
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Newman View Post
As the poster is in the UK, wonder if he is referring to "European Redwood" -- Pinus Sylvestris -- a member of the pine family? Seems it is also called "Scots Pine."

European Redwood | Bryceland Timber ? Total Timber Solutions ? Timber, Flooring, Doors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_pine
Yes, Pinus Sylvestris
Gaia is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tenon Length Seldonman Project Plans and How To 4 11-09-2016 12:16 PM
Trimming Tenon To Fit Mortise. Gaia Tools and Woodworking 16 07-22-2015 06:57 PM
Shank Length vs. Cutting Length (or carbide height) in Straight Bits xzJoel Router Bits - Types and Usage 4 05-12-2012 11:11 PM
New router and which starter router bits for my useage? Skyglider Router Bits - Types and Usage 11 12-08-2010 10:42 PM
mortise & tenon jig yairfe Jigs and Fixtures 23 10-21-2009 06:49 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome