The Roman Potter - look at the tray - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 11:51 PM
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Funny you should mention that. Here are some photos of ones I've done and a bit more here. Not sure how well that will work for a knock-down tray.

The inside tray size is 12x18.
that is so MISS/KISS sweet!!!!

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 12:35 AM
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I am not sure why a person might want a knock down tray. It would be a lot of pieces to keep track of in between uses. But it does make for a unique design, my guess it would never be knocked down in actual use.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 12:45 AM
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good point Herb...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 09:18 AM
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Well this certainly has been added to me project list, thanks guys....Interesting on how to figure out dimensions on pictured objects. Hand size eh? I guess some American politicians trays would be "smaller" than normal eh? Just a poke don't get all riled up now.......no politics here remember.

Decided not to buy the painting at almost $9K although it is very detailed and almost photo like. I hadn't seen this before.
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 10:55 AM
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Well this certainly has been added to me project list, thanks guys....Interesting on how to figure out dimensions on pictured objects. Hand size eh? I guess some American politicians trays would be "smaller" than normal eh? Just a poke don't get all riled up now.......no politics here remember.

Decided not to buy the painting at almost $9K although it is very detailed and almost photo like. I hadn't seen this before.
You are right,Steve, i didn't check the price,but I looked at about 30+ pictures of paintings by clicking the arrow and they are all very nice. This is what I call fine art,totally above some of the stuff they call "Art" today.
Just saying,
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 11:24 AM
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I'd never heard of Tadem before. Almost photorealistic renderings of what I presume are images from daily life. Here from Britanica is a brief bio of the artist:

Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema
British painter
Written By:

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica

Last Updated: Jan 4, 2020 See Article History

Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema, (born January 8, 1836, Dronrijp, Netherlands—died June 25, 1912, Wiesbaden, Germany), Dutch-born painter of scenes from everyday life in the ancient world whose work was immensely popular in its time.

Alma-Tadema, the son of a Dutch notary, studied art at the Antwerp Academy (1852–58) under the Belgian historical painter Hendrik Leys, assisting the painter in 1859 with frescoes for the Stadhuis (town hall) in Antwerp. During a visit to Italy in 1863, Alma-Tadema became interested in Greek and Roman antiquity and Egyptian archaeology, and afterward he depicted imagery almost exclusively from those sources. Moving to England, he became a naturalized British subject in 1873 and was elected a member of the Royal Academy in 1879. He was knighted in 1899.

Alma-Tadema excelled at the accurate re-creation of ancient architecture and costumes and the precise depiction of textures of marble, bronze, and silk. His expert rendering of settings provides a backdrop for anecdotal scenes set in the ancient world. Alma-Tadema’s wife, Laura Epps, was also a painter. https://www.britannica.com/biography...ce-Alma-Tadema
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 11:39 AM
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I am not sure why a person might want a knock down tray. It would be a lot of pieces to keep track of in between uses. But it does make for a unique design, my guess it would never be knocked down in actual use.
Herb
Yes, I am pretty sure that's the case - never knocked down. To me, the exercise is about a look rather than utility. You can make a very nice tray with a lot less work. But still, I think a tray like this is striking and worth pursuing.

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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Well, well, I am really astonished by what all of you have written here, in so many ways that it is a long answer for them all.

First of all, many thanks to old friends who asked about my well being. Well, after several health problems I still worked fully operative in the Greek NHS, retired in Dec 2018, opened a private practice in Feb 2019, and still work and operate. In Greece we say "a bad dog does not die easily".

Second, I am amazed at the extent of drafting and calculations Phil made in his two contributions: My request is for a tray that is good to carry cutlery and crockery - in the Greek countryside most meals during the summer (incl May and September) are best outside, (al fresco, as the Italians call it), and trays for carrying are never enough. So, whether it will take major dishes is theoretical question. How big is a big plate? (nowadays plates are all shapes and sizes, and famous restaurants specialise in serving a huge plate with a tiny cabbage leaf in the middle and a quail egg on it, so good appetite). It is the proportions that interest me more - how can this technique of jointless tray can show light and ethereal and not too bulky without compromising the strength? what wood ca nI find to have enough strength beauty and not cost the earth?). The mention of thickening the handles is very wise, it will add "body" to the item and interest to the technique.

Then, there is one thing I can tell you certainly about potters in the ancient times ("pythoi" - in singular "pythos" - flourished in Minoan Crete, and are still made in the same way, look it up, it is interesting). Because pots were difficult to carry in ancient times, the potters would move from area to area and make the pots there - so there is absolute need for a knock-down tray as the potter was practically a nomad.

Finally, it is the challenge this presents - I agree with Steve, the very minute I saw it I thought "I want to make one" and I brought the subject here to see what opinions I could gather and it has proved a very interesting discussion.

Thank you PhilBa for all your work on this (what a nice work in your site), Chuck you are a good friend, Stick your advice and expertise always wanted (Encyclopedia Woodworkica!), Nick, Herb (should I go for free edge for this tray like you did in the flower pot you made some time ago?), Steve, and Tom.

My very best wishes to you all - I have other priorities now, but this discussion helped me a lot and the pics of Phil's trays show a very pleasant harmony between external and internal curves at the handles, and I may spend more time designing it than it takes for my usual stuff.

A Happy New Year to all.

Dimitri M

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 07:13 PM
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Well, well, I am really astonished by what all of you have written here, in so many ways that it is a long answer for them all.
...
how can this technique of jointless tray can show light and ethereal and not too bulky without compromising the strength? what wood ca nI find to have enough strength beauty and not cost the earth?).
...
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for starting this discussion. It's the sort of thing that keeps me heading into the shop.

I, too, am concerned about strength. Especially of the wide board that forms the base. Certainly plywood is strong enough but I simply can't see using it for something like this. Maybe make it significantly thicker - 18mm/3/4" but that might look too heavy (and perhaps be too heavy). I'm toying with 8mm/3/8" with 3 cleats running cross grain to add strength. Here's what I have so far.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 07:22 PM
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I hope the fact that you are now in private practice means that you get to work the way that you want to and not have to work the way that someone else wants you to. I love your saying that bad dogs don't die easily. It's the perfect explanation for why I still walk this earth. When you build the tray make sure to come back and post pictures. Everything you've posted before was a lesson in how to get the proportions correct.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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