The Roman Potter - look at the tray - Router Forums
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Default The Roman Potter - look at the tray

Greetings everyone , happy new year to all, old friends here, new people I haven't"met" yet, my Very Best Wishes.
In your browser, try to find a painting called "the Roman Potter" by Lawrence Alma Tadema. Have a look at the knock-down wooden tray this fellow is holding. I think it would be a gem in my home, ancient design,eternal style, just maths for aesthetics, dark wood (oak? walnut? mahogany?) smoothing of all edges,it would catch attention immediately.
Thus,the question is,does anyone have an idea of what dimensions each detail should be in order to give it grace?
All ideas and suggestions welcome.
Dimitri
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 02:53 PM
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You mean something like this? I think typical tray dimensions are 18 x 12 (45 x 30 cm) Handles should be about 1.5"/4 cm to make for good hand feel. The other dimensions should be easy to come up with. I like the knock-down nature of the design. Would make a fun gift.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 04:19 PM
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I would think it should be big enough to carry a 12" plate...so I would go with 13" inside dimension with 3/4" sides which would give you about 15 1/2" wide depending on angle you cut the sides.

For the length I would go no more than 20" outside dimension. This would give you about 8" alongside the plate for drink, flower, coffee, silverware, napkin, etc...

I think the broad shouldered handles would call for a good-sized tray...

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 06:55 PM
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Hello Doctor Dimitri. I hope you are well. I recall a while back that you were the one that was going to be operated on. I hope that went well and I'm curious if you've finally been able to retire.

In the painting if the man holding the tray were to stretch his fingers out to the edge of the tray and then drop his elbow to level with it I think it's other edge would land just inside his elbow so if you measured yourself for that length that you should be close. As for the length you've used phi successfully before to calculate a dimension like that and it has worked well in the past so 1.618 (approximately) times the width?
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 08:57 PM
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The guy's arm can be used to determine the scale. I measured from my elbow to the wrist joint and got a little more than 11". Then, I took the photo and cropped out the tray and the guy's arm, brought it into sketchup and then resized the photo so from the the elbow to the wrist was a little more than 11". Now the view of the tray is pretty much on end so there isn't much distortion. I then added some dimensions. Anyway, here are the dimensions I got. Surprisingly wide and the wood is fairly thick.

One thing to consider, Alma-Tadema painted this in 1884 so this is a Victorian era interpretation. There's no guarantee of authenticity and artists often take liberties with scale. Look at Michelangelo's David for example. The head and hands are huge compared to the rest of the body.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 09:48 PM
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I think that's probably a very good interpretation Phil. 17" across would make 27 " long using phi as a proportion. That would be slightly wider than his hips which looks about right. So anything between 15 -17" wide and 24-27" long would be in the right range. I think if the tray were narrower and shorter he might have been more inclined to carry it in front of him instead of beside him.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickp View Post
I would think it should be big enough to carry a 12" plate...so I would go with 13" inside dimension with 3/4" sides which would give you about 15 1/2" wide depending on angle you cut the sides.

For the length I would go no more than 20" outside dimension. This would give you about 8" alongside the plate for drink, flower, coffee, silverware, napkin, etc...

I think the broad shouldered handles would call for a good-sized tray...
control slop...
measure your plates..
let the side's slope comp for clearances ...
there's the better feel for the ID front to back at the bottom of the tray......

use ˝ or 3/8'' material...
bolster (thicken) the hand holds for comfort...
add folding lap legs...
add another/more beverage(s).. coffee/water/juice/carafes...
muffin side plate..
condiment pot(s)...

the tray gets an absorbent place mat...
keep the sides low for dinning comfort...
hang or pocket the napkin(s) and bib externally..
mount the flower in a tube - externally...



.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
I think that's probably a very good interpretation Phil. 17" across would make 27 " long using phi as a proportion. That would be slightly wider than his hips which looks about right. So anything between 15 -17" wide and 24-27" long would be in the right range. I think if the tray were narrower and shorter he might have been more inclined to carry it in front of him instead of beside him.
The actual tray width is probably about 2" less because the interlocking sides protrude around an inch on each side. Overall, that is a very large tray. The ones I've made are usually more like 18"x12" and that works pretty well.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 12:05 AM
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Good to see you Dimitri, and thanks for all the "saves" you do for my boards on Pinrest.
Thanks for all you guys posting on how to dimension things off of pictures. I have noticed in the past quite a few inquiries for dimensioned plans for items seen in pictures. This is how I too take a picture and figure out the size of an item to build. Usually determining just one dimension will give the rest,to the right proportion.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick486 View Post
...
add folding lap legs...
...
Funny you should mention that. Here are some photos of ones I've done and a bit more here. Not sure how well that will work for a knock-down tray.

The inside tray size is 12x18.
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