Broke 2 upspiral bits in 20min (and damaged the collet) - Router Forums
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Country: United States
First Name: N/a
Posts: 10
 
Default Broke 2 upspiral bits in 20min (and damaged the collet)

Hello,

I am cutting 1/4 wide/ 3/4 deep mortise using and upspiral bit. I Have cut hundreds of those mortises this way in the same species (ash) but this time I broke 2 bits in like 20 min and damaged my collet in the mean time. Now I'm out of the shop waiting for a new collet from the mail

What I normally do is a full plunge on both end of the mortise then rout between 3 x 1/4 deep for a total of 3/4 deep. Never had any problem. Now this time I Don't know why but broke 2 bits when plunging full depth at each end. It's like the bit bites in the wood on the last 1/8" or so. Nothing special here same technique like the last hundreds I did but this batch of ash seem different. Table saw was burning it like hell and thickness planer was making tearout sound no matter wich side i feed first.

So I will have to modify my mortise technique. How do you guy do it in very dense & hardwood. I know routing in increment is key but regarding the plunging part, how would you approach it.

My take on this would be to first rout the bulk of the slot using 3 x 1/4 increment staying shy of the ends(Maybe 1/16). when this is done then I will do full plunge at the end leaving more room for the chips to go. It's kinda like the usual method most use but in reverse.

what do you thinks
stgpascal is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 05:35 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 28,630
 
Default

the wood was either dried at a high temp for faster processing or baked too long accidentally or or high temp w/ longer kiln time because it was to high of an MC when it wen into the kiln...
there's a most excellent chance your wood was tempered/hardened....

was are your external and internal MC's???

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 05:36 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 28,630
 
Default

what brand of bit are you using???

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Country: United States
First Name: N/a
Posts: 10
 
Default

thanks for your answer the bits are freud ones

as for the MC I dont have a way to measure it on hand we are in lockdown. It was air dried by another woodworker who stopped woodworking and sold it to me after it has sat in hia shop for years.

what I can say about its appearance is that this board is very different from the other. It is supposed to be ash but it is heavier, more prone to burn and the open grain structure is very tight.

It is in workpieces coming from this board that the bit broke.

anyways these fellas wil be mortised whether they like it or not.

what do you think of the slightlt different method I proposed in the op
stgpascal is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 07:00 PM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,569
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stgpascal View Post
as for the MC I dont have a way to measure it on hand we are in lockdown.
You can still order stuff on-line to be delivered.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Fawkahwe tribal police SWAT Team
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
.....Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is online now  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Country: United States
First Name: N/a
Posts: 10
 
Default

yes I know but right now in canada what used to take 3-4 days to arrive now takes about 1.5 month.I have ordered freud router bits from amazon about 3 weeks ago, they are still waiting to be shipped. Used to take about 5 days to arrive. SO even if I order a moisture meter I would be able to respond like in may.

But regardless of MC does the different method would lead to less chance of Breaking :

-Rout the bulk of the mortise using 1/4 pass and staying about 1/16 shy from the ends up to 1/2 deep
-On the final 1/4 I plunge the full 3/4 on the ends wich will have lots of roomfor the chips to go then rout the final 1/4 (total 3/4 deep)
stgpascal is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 07:44 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 28,630
 
Default

since it was air dried...
that leaves...
it isn't Ash...
and I'm WTB it's still hardened, sunlight will do that ....
you could be hitting wild grain.. (a knot)

is this the bit you are using???
https://www.freudtools.com/explore/r...al/compression
have you considered a double flute straight bit???
https://www.freudtools.com/explore/r...flute-straight

chatter is a bit breaker...
you said you tore up your collet...
how in world did you do that???
one way was not having your bit fully encompassed by the collet, only partially..
is there run out in your router's shaft???

BTW..
do we still keep calling you N/A for a 1st name???...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Country: United States
First Name: N/a
Posts: 10
 
Default

haha you can call me Pascal

The bit is an upspiral fullcarbide one. The collet did not tore but the 2nd bit broke in the collet so it left a mark inside the collet. Other bits became very had to slip into the collet so I feared this would be a receipe for disaster.
stgpascal is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 08:44 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 28,630
 
Default

well Pascal...
ditch the N/A and put you in it's place...

feed rate is too fast for the wood...
smart thinking on the collet...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 11:28 PM
Moderation Team
 
Cherryville Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
First Name: Charles
Posts: 15,885
 
Default

I've always found that removing as much of the waste as is practical results in easier routing and about 1/3 as much wear on the bit. If you're grooving then make a pass or two on the table saw first. In this case I would drill as many holes as possible with a 3/16" bit. Drilling is fast and easy and drill bits are cheap. If you set up accurately on a drill press with a fence to keep you inside the mortise lines then you could go with a 1/4" and then all you have to rout is the points between circles. Even if you are off a tiny bit with the drilling that's not a bad thing because it gives the air in the mortise a way to escape if the fit is otherwise very tight.
DaninVan, Stick486, Ed3443 and 1 others like this.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
Cherryville Chuck is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome