Fire safety, small shop must have, cheap and safe - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 07:20 AM
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The pyrene extinguishers are much more effective than water at extinguishing fires. They lay down a blanket that continues to suppress the fire after the container is empty. Plus they are good for class A, B, and C fires. Water is good for class A but it's the last thing you want to put on a B or C class fire.
...or Class D - metals...

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 07:52 AM
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I have one handy in the workshop, maybe I should have two of them. N
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 09:27 AM
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I have one handy in the workshop, maybe I should have two of them. N
Mine are located on opposite sides, right near the doors.

Also have 135 degree heat detector (not smoke detector) in the space for early warning.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 10:41 AM
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They used to make something like that around 1900, I think it was. Believe I might have seen them on Antique Roadshow, along with other fire fighting antiques. Had never heard of them before. Glass balls, filled with something or other. Interesting, but they didn't remain in vogue for long apparently. Guessing they didn't work that great. But remember, history always repeats itself, especially not so good ideas.

Those glass balls were filled with carbon tetra chloride. They put fires out very well, but it was later discovered that when it hits hot metal in a fire it turns into phosgene, a nerve gas, and something that you absolutely don't want to inhale.

Remember the old brass extinguishers that had a T handle on one end and a little nozzle on the other? These contained carbon tetra chloride too.

The best portable fire extinguishers today are those dry chemical extinguishers that are rated ABC, but one the size of the ones in the photos won't handle a fire much larger than a burning waste can. These will fight any fire that you may have, even an electrical fire safely, but burning metal fires, like magnesium fires, require a completely different type of fire extinguisher.

It's also very important to remember to shoot the extinguisher at the base of the fire, and not into the center or top. You want the fire extinguisher chemical or water to separate the fire from the material that is burning and cool the material that is burning. You need to separate the fire from the material. Remove the heat, fuel source, or the oxygen and it will go out.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 02:28 PM
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another plan is Purple-K (PKP)...
but straight water is usually not the best plan of the week... or is the LAST order of business.....

but then there's sawdust fires which are a Class A fire.... (BTDT/VOE)
Sawdust is highly combustible.
There are a lot of components like electrical wiring, a short spark from metal objects colliding and chemicals during woodworking projects that can quickly ignite a sawdust pile.
Sawdust burns hot and with very little smoke -- combustion is pretty thorough, so you just get to see heat waves and material blackening.
This is why they are often detected a day late and a dollar short..

I had one in my TS. Smelled it, there wasn't any smoke. Definitely scary.
I'm sure glad I found it before quitting time.

Open it up, spread it out, and wet it down. Outdoors if at all possible.
Fill the DC collection drum w/ water.
One in the TS is another whole ballgame..
Like I said before..
Skip the floor sweep plan...

Sawdust fires can indeed be hard to fight. First you are dealing with a very combustible product. Second if it's conveyed to a dust collector with all the ingredients for a fire and deflagration. All that is needed is a spark to complete the Fire Triangle. As per NFPA 664, a listed Spark Detection & Extinguishing System in the conveying system is a very effective tool in preventing this type of fire. Third, saw dust is typically stored in a silo or bin with enough volume that it is hard to extinguish any embedded embers or fires not matter how good your sprinkler or deluge system, because the water will tunnel through the material instead of wetting it thoroughly and consistently. And fourth, with enough combustible dust disbursed within the vessel, as you empty it you create an increasingly explosive atmosphere . Firefighters are at risk of injury when opening a dust collector or storage vessel as they are adding oxygen to a combustible dust cloud with an embedded ember.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 04:01 PM
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Forget the water unless you have an 1.5" hose with a fog nozzle. Fire extinguishers are much more affective. Turn them over and give them a good shaking once in awhile to keep the powder from caking. I've been through the Navy fire fighting training twice and was on a ship that had an engine room fire that burned a lot of fuel oil. I was badly burned as an 8 year old. Still have the scars and memories. Be safe!
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 04:03 PM
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I have 3 in my shop, 2 as shown and another for chemical fires. A must in all shops for sure.
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Don't fear your tools, pay attention and respect the tools and avoid injury.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 04:20 PM
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Forget the water unless you have an 1.5" hose with a fog nozzle. Fire extinguishers are much more affective. Turn them over and give them a good shaking once in awhile to keep the powder from caking. I've been through the Navy fire fighting training twice and was on a ship that had an engine room fire that burned a lot of fuel oil. I was badly burned as an 8 year old. Still have the scars and memories. Be safe!
The "old days" we used low velocity fog as a shield for the attack team when confronting a fire, and CO2 or Halon of we couldn't knock it down quick.

Newer commercial vessels now use a High velocity Mist system, which works a lot like a CO2 system (or steam smothering system) but is less likely to extinguish personnel in the compartment. i haven't seen any real-world case studies that show the good/bad of these systems yet.


https://www.marioff.com/water-mist/g...ion-vs-hi-fogr
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 06:53 PM
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What made me think of the Metals Class D was fighting Volkswagen engine compartment fires (many, many moons ago). We covered about 20 miles of major interstate roads so when a car fire was called in we typically didn't get to it for 10 minutes or more.

In those days (don't know about now) when a belt flew off in a VW it typically slapped the fuel line/filter. As a result of the belt being off, the engine would overheat terribly, eventually catching fire with the gas having sprayed in the engine compartment.

Typical firefighter tactics is to "put the wet stuff on the hot stuff"...but with these VW engines (I think Magnesium) if the metal caught, it was too late for water...BOOM...the burning metal doesn't like water and the poor guy at the "head of the line" would likely get knocked on his a$$. Dry powder/Purple-K is the way to go...with the frequent maintenance of turning it over a few times to break up the powder (as was mentioned above).

No reason to go with water in the shop unless it is definitely Class A. A small CO2, properly applied at the base of the fire source, is a much better general extinguisher. Equally important is to shut down all the electric sources...applies to any fire, however small, in the shop. Slap that breaker, dial 911 and then hit it with the right firefighting tool. If the fire gets bigger than your extinguisher can handle, watch it from the front lawn. Nothing is more important than your life.

I was in submarines (diesel, fast attack, missile) and the last thing any of us wanted was a fire. Fire equals smoke, smoke equals can't see/breathe. The same thing would happen in a small shop...you would be surprised how much smoke develops in a short time.

On my boat I carry CO2's in all compartments and walkways and two powder's for the engine room. My garage/shop is fitted with CO2's.

When a fire does occur in your shop, carefully consider the fire triangle before applying any firefighting tactics...do you want to remove HEAT, FUEL or OXYGEN...?

Great topic...very glad it came up.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
The pyrene extinguishers are much more effective than water at extinguishing fires. They lay down a blanket that continues to suppress the fire after the container is empty. Plus they are good for class A, B, and C fires. Water is good for class A but it's the last thing you want to put on a B or C class fire.
I was going to mention the same thing. But most people know that water on electrical or grease is bad. But if they want to use water, then so be it.

Yes, these 17.00 dollar cheap piece of mind are all ABC rated.

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