Fire safety, small shop must have, cheap and safe - Page 4 - Router Forums
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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 10:59 PM
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Mine arrived today,3 of them .I will mount them tomorrw. Thanks for starting this thread. I had completely forgot about FE's.
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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 10:50 AM
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Yes, you want to have the right fire extinguishers in place BEFORE YOU NEED THEM.

Having only one fire extinguisher in a given area isn't the best plan. What if it isn't quite enough to put out the fire? What if it fails?

Most fires will grow expotentially in size over time from their beginning. The sooner that you can fight the fire, the more likely that you will succeed.

If you fail to put the fire out, remember to close the door on your way out. Keeping the fire in the one room and minimizing it's fresh air source until help arrives, is very important. It will also minimize fire and smoke damage, containing it, at least for a while, within that one room. It would be better to loose your shop than your whole house that's attached to it.

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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 11:08 AM
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Mine arrived today,3 of them .I will mount them tomorrw. Thanks for starting this thread. I had completely forgot about FE's.
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Herb (and others),

Do you have them in the rest of your house? Maybe you need more? The kitchen? The garage? Each car? The central hallway between the bedrooms? Upstairs hallway?

Again, you don't want to put them where the fire is most likely to start, but you should have at least one nearby that you can get to quickly, like near the door or just outside of it, and another that you can get to with a little more effort, maybe a little farther away, should you fail to put out the fire with the first one. Don't forget to call or have someone else call the fire dept. while you are doing your best to contain and put out the fire.

As a fireman, I was never upset that I responded to a fire call but the home owner had the fire out before we got there. When this happens, we do an investigation to be certain that the fire is really out, that everyone is safe, and we do a report that helps the home owner when it comes time to deal with their insurance company. Most fire companies will also help in the cleanup, with water vacuums, squeegies, plastic tarps, etc.

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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 12:06 PM
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Having only one fire extinguisher in a given area isn't the best plan. What if it isn't quite enough to put out the fire? What if it fails?

Charley
Absolutely right, and I'll add: What if the fire is between you and the fire extinguisher?
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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 06:27 PM
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Absolutely right, and I'll add: What if the fire is between you and the fire extinguisher?
One of my reasons for saying "put it near the door" and "have more than one". It's best to have more than one escape route too, maybe not from your standing position, but from the other side of the tool, bench, etc. A passage door plus the garage door is my 2 ways out. The garage door isn't quite as easy to get to from where I'm usually standing and working, but if it's my only way out because the fire is blocking the passage door, I'm certain that it won't take me very long to get there. Another fire extinguisher is there too, plus the garden hose just outside and between this door and the passage door.

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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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One of my reasons for saying "put it near the door" and "have more than one".
Yeah I stated something to that effect. What I was saying, is put it in a area you will subconsciously see every time you go in and out of work area. So in an actual emergency, even a panicked person will know where to reach in their sleep. So put it at eye sight (but not eyesore, especially if you are a interior designer)

I stated something like that, it is what I had meant.

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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 11:39 PM
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A few things came to mind as I read down through all these comments. First, if you are going to have only one extinguisher, then the only way to go is with the A B C extinguisher. The chemical in this type of extinguisher is Monoammonium Phosphate. It is hell on unprotected metals as it becomes acetic when exposed to moisture or humidity, so things will rust or oxidize after you operate the extinguisher. Vacuum it up as soon as possible and then wipe it off with a damp cloth that you rinse frequently. Any area with banks of electronics and relays (your CNC machine and computer) will be destroyed by using an ABC type extinguisher. Purple K was mentioned. It is Potassium bicarbonate and works on flammable liquids by interrupting the flame chain reaction (between the vapors coming off the liquid and the actual flames) by bonding to the active ion sites in the chemical reaction. It grabs the fuel so that it isn't available to the oxygen thus stopping burning. You have just combined two dry chemical extinguishers that are completely different in their effectiveness on different types of fire. Purple K won't be effective on wood or sawdust, so when you are faced with a fire - will you remember which extinguisher to grab? Nothing burns as a solid. All fuels must be vaporized before they take part in the oxidation process. Water works by cooling the fuel below its "flash point" (that temperature where enough vapors are coming off the material to flash into fire) Pine or fir typically begin to burn at about 400 degrees, so 60 degree water will be effective in putting out the fire (converts to steam at 212 deg. F.) if you can bring the water in contact with the hot fuel. Sawdust and shavings don't like water (pitch) but you can improve the contact by adding a surfactant (make the water like to stick to the fuel) like some dishwashing detergent. A plastic garden pump sprayer filled with water and a shot of Dawn dish detergent will be a good thing to grab for a fire in your dust collector bag. Having said this, agitating the fine dust by stirring of forceful application of the water can create a dust cloud that could detonate. Dust explosions are nasty, and it isn't the first little "Puff" that does the damage. That first little explosion will shake all the loose dust into the air and the second one will be the killer. A good estimator for the amount of water needed by the fire department to put our "ordinary" combustibles in a structure is 1 gallon per minute for every 100 cubic feet of involvement. So a 10 x 10 shop with a 10 ft high ceiling will need 10 GPM for extinguishment, but the water must be applied to the burning fuel. Squirting the wall when the fire is under the floor won't put the fire out. Lastly, since carbon dioxide was mentioned.. it puts out fires by displacing the oxygen. It is heavier than air, so works best on flammable liquids by blanketing the liquid. For an electrical motor, you will need enough CO-2 to push the oxygen out of the motor frame. Putting water on a burning, energized motor exposes the operator to possible electrocution. Surprisingly not with the electricity following the stream from the extinguisher, but by following floor water to the operators feet and then to a ground point. Hope some of this helps to generate more discussion.
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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 01:36 PM
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I was trying to avoid the technical terms by not including them, but thanks. Most people glaze over when you go technical, and these same people are the first to run past the extinguisher and leave the door open as they run away from the fire. My reason for trying to avoid this.

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