Help - where do you locate your dust filter? - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
Call me crazy but an air purifier is just that. Instead of spending big bucks for an industrial filter I use a round Honeywell HEPA filter. I bought this for $20? at a flea market. When sanding I set it next to the project and it pulls all the fines and most of the larger stuff into the filter. Of course you are welcome to spend more money for less performance...
Hi Mike:

Do you have a MERV number for that? The problem is the HEPA filters have a standard all their own and I can't find any comparison between HEPA and MERV. Help!

Ron

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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 06:01 PM
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Here is a link to a similar newer unit: Amazon.com: Honeywell 50150 Pure HEPA Round Air Purifier: Home & Kitchen

People buy these and use them a while; once they find out the cost of replacement elements they often end up in flea markets, second hand shops and garage sales cheap. I would not spend the money on replacement filters either. For the shop use it is fine; when needed I take it outside and blow it out with compressed air.

Ron, I have no idea what a MERV number is.(with the exception of a phone number to call my uncle.) These HEPA filters typically trap particles down to 0.3 microns. They have a high flow rate. As I said when sanding next to the machine you can see the flow of dust into the filter. The 360° intake and discharge does a great job in the shop.

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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-22-2012, 04:20 AM
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Hello!
Thanks fot your quik answer Mike!
Pity that "flea market" is no so good around here, I have to buy new things.

Been visiting Amazon , it comes that Honeywell system is more expensive to use than
3M equivalent system:

Honeywell 50150 Pure HEPA Round Air Purifier $114
Amazon.com: Honeywell 50150 Pure HEPA Round Air Purifier: Home & Kitchen

Honeywell 38002 Enviracare Universal Replacement Pre-Filter $1.5
Found the Honeywell HEPA replacement for $46.99

Amazon.com: Honeywell 24500 Replacement Air Cleaner HEPA Filter: Home & Kitchen

About 3M:
300MPR
Filtrete 303DC-6 Dust Reduction Filters, 300 MPR, 20 x 25 x 1, 6-Pack $31.01
Amazon.com: Filtrete 303DC-6 Dust Reduction Filters, 300 MPR, 20 x 25 x 1, 6-Pack: Home Improvement

Pack of 6 that's a $5 each.

1000 MERV

3M Filtrete 4-Pack Micro Allergen Reduction Filters, 1000 MERV $49.40
Amazon.com: Filtrete 9802-4PK Micro Allergen Reduction Filters, 1000 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 4-Pack: Home Improvement
That's a $12.5 each.

1500 MPR
Filtrete 2002DC-6 Ultra Allergen Reduction Filters, 1500 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 6-Pack $96.87
Amazon.com: Filtrete 2002DC-6 Ultra Allergen Reduction Filters, 1500 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 6-Pack: Home Improvement

That makes $15 each!

1900 MPR
Filtrete UA02-6PK Ultimate Allergen Reduction Filters, 1900 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 6-Pack:
Amazon.com: Filtrete UA02-6PK Ultimate Allergen Reduction Filters, 1900 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 6-Pack: Home Improvement
$104.57 That's a better filter for $16 each.

2200 MPR
Filtrete EA02DC-6 Elite Allergen Reduction Filters, 2200 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 6-Pack
Amazon.com: Filtrete EA02DC-6 Elite Allergen Reduction Filters, 2200 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 6-Pack: Home Improvement

$140.99 makes $23.5 each.

That the ultimate possibilty of micro- filtering.

Now tha's big packs of 6 let's buy less:
Filtrete EA02-2PK-2 Elite Allergen Reduction Filters, 2200 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 2-Pack
Amazon.com: Filtrete EA02-2PK-2 Elite Allergen Reduction Filters, 2200 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 2-Pack: Home Improvement

$40.61 for two filters. One filter $20.5


So let's figure out price for 3 stage Ron 3 stage filtering:


stage2 1000 merv $ 12.5
stage3 2200 MPR $ 20.5
--------------
Total $ 32.50

Buyings:

1000 merv qty4 $ 50
2200 MPR qty2 $41
---------------------------
Total $91 but It' s investment for years ...

Comparison filter changing:

Honeywell well Pre-filter $ 1.50
Honeywell HEPA $ 46.00
------------------------------------
Total $ 47.50 <> 3M combination 3 stages $ 32.50

So it makes a 2 Stages well rated filter- set cheaper than Honeywell HEPA

Stays the fan, maybe that could do it:

Air King 20-Inch 2,140 CFM 3-Speed Box Fan #9723 $38.35
Amazon.com: Air King 20-Inch 2,140 CFM 3-Speed Box Fan #9723: Home & Kitchen

So it comes to $37.50 filters
$39 fan
------------------------------
Total $78.50 Plus some plywood or medium 1/2" for box.
total

Regards
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-22-2012, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Mike:

Here is a link to a similar newer unit: Amazon.com: Honeywell 50150 Pure HEPA Round Air Purifier: Home & Kitchen

People buy these and use them a while; once they find out the cost of replacement elements they often end up in flea markets, second hand shops and garage sales cheap. I would not spend the money on replacement filters either. For the shop use it is fine; when needed I take it outside and blow it out with compressed air.[/QUOTE]

Interesting gadget. I've never seen one up here. I'll keep my eyes open this summer and see what I can pick up. The biggest problem I see is the limit to the airflow. A shop needs lots of airflow to clear the air as quickly as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
Ron, I have no idea what a MERV number is.(with the exception of a phone number to call my uncle.) These HEPA filters typically trap particles down to 0.3 microns. They have a high flow rate. As I said when sanding next to the machine you can see the flow of dust into the filter. The 360° intake and discharge does a great job in the shop.
I'm trying to replace the sticky with all of that information but I keep running into new information. I'll try another upload in the next day or so.

Thanks for the input Mike.

Ron

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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-22-2012, 01:23 PM
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hello Ron!

Maybe update to 2200 MPR:

Amazon.com: Filtrete EA02-2PK-2 Elite Allergen Reduction Filters, 2200 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 2-Pack: Home Improvement

By the way , I' d go for only two levels filters, cost less and better air-flow.
What's your opinion?

Regards.
Gérard
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-22-2012, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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hello Ron!

Maybe update to 2200 MPR:

Amazon.com: Filtrete EA02-2PK-2 Elite Allergen Reduction Filters, 2200 MPR, 20 x 20 x 1, 2-Pack: Home Improvement

By the way , I' d go for only two levels filters, cost less and better air-flow.
What's your opinion?

Regards.
Gérard
Hi Gerard:

The update is not the problem, it's getting the 2200MPR. If our local vendors don't carry it, it can't be had unless ordered in. If the labelling isn't in two languages, my local vendors can't get it. I've actually run into a vendor refusing to ship english language only products into Quebec.

As for the two levels of filters I had them so I used them. I also looked at the "more efficient" filters and the most expensive were 4" thick so I figured "why not?" At a minimum I figured the two cheap filters would help keep the expensive filters from getting fouled up with coarse dust.

We'll have to compare notes further down the road.

Ron

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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 09:01 PM
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Regarding merv ratings, hepa ratings and mpr ratings

What is a MERV Rating?

MERV, which stands for Minimum Efficiency Reporting Value, is a rating that was developed by ASHRAE (the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers) used to assess the filtering power of a furnace filter/air cleaner.
The MERV scale consists of ratings from 1 to 16, with filter performance being greater as the number increases. On the MERV scale, dirt particles are graded from 0.3 microns to 10 microns. A micron is 1 millionth of a millimeter, and to give you an idea of just how small that is, you can look at the size of a single human hair. The average strand of human hair is about 100 microns thick, so imagine just how small 0.3 microns of dirt is!
The Merv rating is directly related to micron size, with the best merv rating being 16

A HEPA air filter must trap 99.97% of all airborne contaminants that are 0.3 microns, which would give it a merv raing of 16

Mpr rating were developed by 3m as there own rating system. I have not been able to find any way to relate it to the standard of measuring removal by micron size. I personally believe that they developed their own rating system to deliberately make it hard to compart their filters with others. Also, since none of the independant testing labs use the MPR rating system there is no independant testing done to verify any of 3M's ratings. Honeywell hepa rated filters have been tested and rated by independant testing labratories.
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-27-2012, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Mark:

Gerard found a chart that specifically states the MPR ratings on filters and their equivalent in MERV, The best 3M filter with an MPR of 2200 is directly equivalent to MERV12. I've included this in the article I'm about to upload. I think we've got it down pretty good by name.

Thanks for the info.

Ron

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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-27-2012, 04:47 PM
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Hello!

Pitty this nice brand new 3M 2200MPR is only a 12 MERV..
It looks unsuficient comparing it to HEPA.
Did you find any information about HEPA testing compares to MERV ?
If test conditions are not the same, HEPA could be one other way to make things look good while still questionable.

I did like the simple constuction 20x20x1...
But got information about a costly Hepa filter for workshop that's more than 10" thick.

Regards
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-27-2012, 08:33 PM
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Default 3M /Dylos

At one time I bought into the theory that if you had good dust collection at the source you didn't need a separate dust collection filter. Then Dylos brought out an relative inexpensive test instrument for displaying the amount of dust in the air you breath. I bought the DC1100 version that measures down to .5 Micron.
This was a bit of a shock when first used. My shop appears clean to the eye but its not. I can get air down to a display of 65 which is rated excellent but if I turn on a hand held router or my dual drum sander I get 6500. My shop made filter uses a 2amp blower with a 20x24 HEPA and a police filter of the purple 3M Home furnace of about the same size. I fogot the Merv # but no matter,it doesn't work fast enough to clear the air in less then 5 hours. I just recently replaced the 3M 1" thick filter with a 6" thick 3M filter I got at Lowes for about $30 as I remember. No data yet but I don't expect much. It should last a long time ,maybe a year compared to the 2-3 months I get on the 1" filter and should be cost effective. There will be no change in air quality time. This system works fair for light dust but when cutting MDF forget it.

So I now use the furnace if the air goes bad. I have 4 each 3M filters on it about 12x20 in parallel. This works very well and cleans the air to 75 in about an hour+. So I got a used furnace blower for free. Some of the HVAC will give you one. I'm going to build a system around this blower and use the 3M V-Bank filters. I don't like running the furnace blower and wearing it out. $$$

Using a HEPA to clean shop air is futile. HEPA fillters get 100% of the dust. This is important in some industries where a spec of dust will ruin a part. The MERV's don't get 100% but what it misses will be picked up on the 2 or 3rd pass though. The important thing is a HUGE amount of air flow to clean the air fast. HEPA NG for this at a fair price. I think good MERV's will get the job done on the cheap. I intend to tie the blower to the Dylos so when the air quality drops to a bad level it turns on automatically and then turns off when the air is clean.

Without meters one cannot determine what is going on. CFM or air quality. If you value your health spend the $ and buy a Dylos. Subjective comments are just hot air and mean nothing. I'll tell you what- trying to figure air out is the most difficult thing I have ever done. There is so much bad info and just plain lies out there it drives me nutso. Every one with a HF unit is an expert, they think.
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