Bits and simple fence for first project - Router Forums
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Jay
Posts: 10
 
Default Bits and simple fence for first project

As described in the thread "Newb, picked up a used router, what next?" in the General Routing forum (can't do links yet, but here's most of the link: routerforums.com/general-routing/139195-newb-picked-up-used-router-what-next.html ), I've picked up a used plunge router and table setup. I've never used a router before, and one of the first projects I'd like to undertake is this plyometric box build - again, don't have permission to post links yet, but if you search for "3-in-1 Plyometric Box jonathan zempel", it should be the first result. I don't have any bits yet, so this will be the start of getting some bits - if one of those $20-30 bit kits is sufficient for occasional DIY use, I can do that, or if those aren't even worth that much, I'm open to getting (semi-budget) bits as needed as I tackle different projects.

The box would be made of 3/4" plywood. The author uses the router to round over edges and to make a few dado cuts. The dado cuts are as pictured in the first pic below. The dados are 3/8" deep, 3/4" wide and 6" long. So I guess I need a 3/4" straight bit? Suggestions? Also, need a roundover bit.

He uses a jigsaw and circular saw to cut notches along the edges of several piece of plywood. I can't cut a straight line with a jigsaw to save my life, so I thought this might be easier with a router table. The last two pics below show the required notches - starting with a rectangular piece of 3/4" ply, he takes 3/4" off the edge to create the notches. Seems like a router could do that pretty easily. I guess the corners of the notches could be cleaned up with a jigsaw (or hammer and chisel). Is trying to cut these notches on a router easier than using a cheap Harbor Freight jigsaw? If so, what kind of bit would I need for that?

And lastly, I need a fence. A lot of DIY fence videos seem pretty complicated (and seem to assume you already have a router table and fence or table saw to make some of the cuts). I was thinking I could start with a very simple fence and then use that to build a better fence as I start using the router more. Initially I thought I could use aluminum angle from the big box stores (with a notch cut out for the bit), but since I'm not seeing any videos where people are suggesting this, I'm guessing this alu angle isn't exactly square. How about a piece of 2x4 (sitting on edge or face, whichever makes more sense)? I've got lots of short pieces of 2x4 and could probably find one that is straight.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3.png
Views:	32
Size:	6.0 KB
ID:	372241  

Attached Images
   
Herb Stoops likes this.
gn86 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 12:28 AM
Moderation Team
 
Cherryville Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
First Name: Charles
Posts: 14,859
 
Default

Lots of us have used a 2x 4 or the edge of a sheet of ply cutoff for a fence. Square isn't as important as straight is and you don't need it to be high unless you are running something through on edge.

The problem with jigsaws is that the blades tend to wander and it's worse on cheap ones because they don't have the roller blade guide near the shoe. A really good quality blade will help though such as a Bosch or Lennox. If you have a few of those to do then I would make a template of the cutout and use either a flush trim or pattern bit to follow the template. A flush trim bit has a bearing on the bottom so you would place the template under your piece. A pattern bit has a bearing on the shaft so you would place the template on top of your piece with it.
A pattern bit: https://www.amazon.com/CMT-812-127-1...gateway&sr=8-5
A flush trim bit: https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Bearing...s%2C241&sr=8-3

And you can get bits with bearings above and below the cutter: https://www.amazon.com/Freud-50-501-...9HEG432YZTVNYY
gn86 likes this.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
Cherryville Chuck is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 12:43 AM
Forum Contributor
 
Herb Stoops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Country: United States
First Name: Herb
Posts: 7,341
 
Default

OK for all you Dummies out there like me, (What thehell is a Plyometric Box), I had to look it up.

Plyometric training is designed to increase speed, power and explosiveness. Plyometric training sessions are a great supplement to regular strength training.

‘A plyometric exercise is quick, powerful movement that starts with an eccentric (muscle-lengthening) action and is immediately followed by a concentric (muscle-shortening) action. Performing plyometric movements increases muscular power, which translates to higher jumps and faster sprint times’.

Plyo Boxes have become quite popular in gyms, but many people are still not too sure what to do with them without guidance. They are highly versatile, functional pieces of equipment. You can get three jump landing heights out of one piece of equipment.


Herb
jj777746 likes this.
Herb Stoops is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Country: South Africa
First Name: Biagio
Posts: 287
 
Send a message via Skype™ to Biagio
Default

Hi Jay,
Had a look at the project.

I suggest you round the edges over first. For this you need a round over bit (similar profile to what came with the router), carbide-tipped, with a bearing instead of the integral pilot of your old bit. An offset base would be nice, but you can get by by just having a scrap piece of the same thickness as the plywood, to stop the router tipping - it happens.
1. Although you can do the notches with a router (but then use a straight bit with a half-inch shank), understand that you will be pulverizing the 3/4 X 3/4 pieces of plywood to be removed. Fairly tedious, even with a powerful router, not to mention dusty.
I would recommend that you get rid of most of the waste with circular saw and jigsaw - precision not required, better to leave a bit of waste. Then do the final cut to the line with the router. For this purpose, any old fence will do - a straight piece of wood, with a half-hole to accommodate the router bit (actually, if you pivot end end of the fence, you can slowly swing it across, and let the bit cut its own housing). The only thing about the fence, it should be higher than the thickness of the plywood, so that the top of the bit is proud of the plywood. For safety, glue/screw/nail something over the bit cavity - if you are not used to this type of tool, you do not want to even possibly get your fingers near the spinning bit.
2. Do all the saw cutting first, then set the fence with some test cuts on a piece of scrap. The backset of the fence is the same for all the notches, so once clamped down tight, you can do all the routing in one shot.
3. Just a thought - if you use a 1/2” bit, the bit will actually stand out from the fence, so the hole in the fence is not even required, as you will be shaving at 3/4” from the front of the fence.
4. For the above operation, neither template, bearing or bushing is required. You will have to finish the corners of the cuts by hand, as you said.
5. For the dados, you will have to have the router out of the table, handheld, ready to plunge. The easiest would be to use a plunging pattern bit (I.e the ends of the blades also cut - some straight bits are labeled plunge bits, but actually do not bore into wood - they cut from the side). Like Charles said. The bearing should be on the shank side of the bit. Make a template of your dado by cutting the rectangle by hand in a piece of thin plywood or hardboard. The size of the board should be at least three-quarters of the diameter of the router base, measured from all edges of the dado cutout. With experience it is possible to use a smaller board, but you do not want to mess things up while trying at this stage. Set the depth of cut (remember the missing piece, you will need something here to limit the plunge depth) such that the final pass goes right through the plywood (at least, that is what I understood from the plans). Either place the board on some type of sawhorses, or have a sacrificial piece of scrap wood underneath, otherwise you will dado your workbench.
6. For this purpose, you do not want a long bit: if it is too long, the bearing will not bear against the template on the first pass, and you will chew up the template. If it is not long enough, less of a problem - once the bearing is below the template, it will be bearing against the previously routed edge - as good as the template.
7. You might want to take the rounder-over bit mentioned above, and take a pass around the inside of the dado cut - nice rounded finish, easy on the hands. The direction of feed is important - read the material referenced by Stick in your earlier post. It also shows how to set depth of cut, for various profiles of bit.
gn86 likes this.
Biagio is online now  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:48 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Country: South Africa
First Name: Biagio
Posts: 287
 
Send a message via Skype™ to Biagio
Default

Addendum to point no. 3 : if the bit is completely out side of the fence, make sure you apply some kind of safety shroud on top of the fence, large enough to completely cover the bit.

Also, if you choose not to remove the bulk of the waste with a saw, it is advisable to do it in passes, to avoid splinters, tearout and other negative stuff. In that case, do all the pieces at each backset of the fence, before resetting the fence.
gn86 likes this.
Biagio is online now  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:59 AM
Registered User
 
roxanne562001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Roxanne
Posts: 761
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gn86 View Post
As described in the thread "Newb, picked up a used router, what next?" in the General Routing forum (can't do links yet, but here's most of the link: routerforums.com/general-routing/139195-newb-picked-up-used-router-what-next.html ), I've picked up a used plunge router and table setup. I've never used a router before, and one of the first projects I'd like to undertake is this plyometric box build - again, don't have permission to post links yet, but if you search for "3-in-1 Plyometric Box jonathan zempel", it should be the first result. I don't have any bits yet, so this will be the start of getting some bits - if one of those $20-30 bit kits is sufficient for occasional DIY use, I can do that, or if those aren't even worth that much, I'm open to getting (semi-budget) bits as needed as I tackle different projects.

The box would be made of 3/4" plywood. The author uses the router to round over edges and to make a few dado cuts. The dado cuts are as pictured in the first pic below. The dados are 3/8" deep, 3/4" wide and 6" long. So I guess I need a 3/4" straight bit? Suggestions? Also, need a roundover bit.

He uses a jigsaw and circular saw to cut notches along the edges of several piece of plywood. I can't cut a straight line with a jigsaw to save my life, so I thought this might be easier with a router table. The last two pics below show the required notches - starting with a rectangular piece of 3/4" ply, he takes 3/4" off the edge to create the notches. Seems like a router could do that pretty easily. I guess the corners of the notches could be cleaned up with a jigsaw (or hammer and chisel). Is trying to cut these notches on a router easier than using a cheap Harbor Freight jigsaw? If so, what kind of bit would I need for that?

And lastly, I need a fence. A lot of DIY fence videos seem pretty complicated (and seem to assume you already have a router table and fence or table saw to make some of the cuts). I was thinking I could start with a very simple fence and then use that to build a better fence as I start using the router more. Initially I thought I could use aluminum angle from the big box stores (with a notch cut out for the bit), but since I'm not seeing any videos where people are suggesting this, I'm guessing this alu angle isn't exactly square. How about a piece of 2x4 (sitting on edge or face, whichever makes more sense)? I've got lots of short pieces of 2x4 and could probably find one that is straight.
I make most of my fences out of a piece of straight 3/4" birch plywood for my router table. I make them about 4" wide so I can clamp them down with c clamps. You can use the factory edge. But you can use most any thing that is straight for a fence. I sometimes need to have the bit behind the edge of the fence. You can use the router and bit to make a cut into the fence. Just raise the router up in the table then clamp the fence at one end then slowly pivot the fence into the spinning bit to the depth you need. This will give you a zero clearance fence to help prevent tear out. I have found that for braking down/cutting large panels straight you can use a clamp like this https://www.harborfreight.com/50-inc...ide-66581.html
They work well with all types of cutting tools just square it to the panel then make your cut. you have to allow for the width of the shoe on the saw. My circular saw is 3 1/2" from the wide side. so I just mark for the guide that distance from the cut line.
I would also get some 1/2" shank straight carbide bits some 1/2" shank carbide round over bits. 1/2" bits will fit your router just don't use the sleeve. When you put the bits in do not bottom them out. Leave a slight space at the bottom. Use the 2 wrench method to tighten the collet.
I just wanted to add that you should make sure to read Sticks posts on router safety and always know what direction the bit is going.
jj777746 and gn86 like this.
roxanne562001 is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 12:41 PM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,002
 
Default

I would say the plans for that box are more complicated than need be First thing, I would not have wood cut at Home Depot, the few times I had wood cut there, the cuts were straight, after all the cuts are made with a panel saw. But width of cuts? Likely as not going to be too narrow I would just have them cut a bit larger than need be. I'd lay out the lines, then rough cut the wood, cutting as close to the likes as reasonable, then use a sander to sand to the lines Which negates the need for a circular saw. I'd cut the hand hold like suggested, but you do not need a router to round over the edges, outside edges either, a sander will round all the edges adequately As far as the dado cuts, don't need to. Just cut thru, like with the hand holes, and make the tips scheduled for the dados long enough to go all the way thru the wood - which negates the need for a router. You don't even need a sander actually, sandpaper glued onto wood strips is the way I would do it. Simple.

Watching videos on youtube is not the best way to learn much of anything Yes, some videos are indeed educational. But I have found that most are posted by people who don't actually know what they are doing, or why.
gn86 likes this.

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Jay
Posts: 10
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
I would say the plans for that box are more complicated than need be
I agree! I looked around some more and found something easier - can't post links yet, but if you search youtube for "buff dudes plyo box" it will be the first result. Instead of trying to cut a dado slot for the internal bracing, it uses 2x2 which I can cut with my miter saw - much easier for me (and probably everyone else too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
First thing, I would not have wood cut at Home Depot, the few times I had wood cut there, the cuts were straight, after all the cuts are made with a panel saw. But width of cuts? Likely as not going to be too narrow I would just have them cut a bit larger than need be.
For sure. I always have the big box stores rip sheets slightly larger than I need, just so I can transport it home. Then I cut to measure using circular saw and a clamp guide like the one @roxanne562001 suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
I'd cut the hand hold like suggested, but you do not need a router to round over the edges, outside edges either, a sander will round all the edges adequately
No sander and I would prefer a rounder edge than hand sanding will get me before I get tired of sanding. Plus I'd like all the edges of the plywood to be rounded off slightly - and while I could do it by hand, I'm going to get a round-over bit at some point, so might as well get it now and save all that hand sanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
As far as the dado cuts, don't need to. Just cut thru, like with the hand holes, and make the tips scheduled for the dados long enough to go all the way thru the wood - which negates the need for a router.
Great point. That 3/8" deep dado cut stopped at both ends in 3/4" ply is probably too much to bite off for someone who has never used a router! And other than aesthetics, there is no need for it - just go all the way through as you suggest and with correspondingly longer notches to fit, you don't lose any structural strength.
roxanne562001 and Herb Stoops like this.
gn86 is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:24 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Herb Stoops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Country: United States
First Name: Herb
Posts: 7,341
 
Default

That is the right way to do it. Get an idea and kick it around so that it fits you tools and skill level. After you have done one ,then you can fine tune your technique more and so on.
Herb
Herb Stoops is online now  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:56 PM
Forum Contributor
 
DesertRatTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Tom
Posts: 15,589
 
Default

Using a circular saw requires pushing it down, through the material. Good luck getting that to happen. At the least you'll have to set the saw depth and lock it that way (half to one inch lower than the thickness of the piece. I'd mark the saw where the blade appears to where it disappears into the base. Those will be your start, stop marks. I'd set stop blocks onto the piece so I didn't over cut. You will also need to clamp on a fairly tall fence to the side so it controls any side to side movement. Given the length of the cut, I'd prefer to use a smaller saw, a 6.5 inch diameter blade for example. Easier to control. And I'd use a good quality blade and cut throught he back of the piece so any tearout or splintering is on the back.

If you use Home Depot or Lowes ply, get the stuff with as many layers as possible, and make sure it's flat--much of it is NOT. Pick a piece a few layers down the top layers are others' rejects. The stuff with fewer layers is likely to splinter like mad. You can also press green painters tape on the surface which will help control splintering. I'd find out where to get some real Baltic Birch or maybe something Called Apple Ply, which is harder to get. Both these products have many layers and don't have internal voids that show up as spots on the edges with a void. Baltic Birch ply comes in 5x5 sheets so you have to plan acordingly. BB ply will also take the roundover cut much more cleanly that even the best big box (chinese) ply.

Clamp guides wherever you are going to make a cut. Freehand cuts will not be as straight, no matter how much experience you have. This project is actually a precision build and the box will only be as strong as the cuts are accurate.

Lots of good advice so far. You can speed up reaching 10 posts by responding briefly to a number of posts, including your own. And I suggest you post pictures of your shop, your setup, the tools you intend to use. If you shoot the pictures and save them on your hard drive, you can post immediately.

Last thoughts. You will want to find some kind of fairly rigid table so you can clamp the work pieces down securely while you cut them. This will be particularly important for making the circular saw cuts. If you choose to use a jig saw, get a fairly fine tooth blade that's fresh and sharp. Again, use the tool on the back side since the up stroke is where the cut is made, so when the teeth exit the finished side, it will likely cause chips or splintering. Tape helps.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.

Last edited by DesertRatTom; 07-26-2019 at 10:01 PM.
DesertRatTom is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome