Location of insert on table - Reasons - Router Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Default Location of insert on table - Reasons

Hi,

I am still designing my table and was wondering if I should mount the insert in the centre of the top (900mm x 600mm) About 3 foot x 2 foot I think)
or off set it to one end or side.

I read some where that it is better to favour the right side of the top but I dont know why.

I will be using it for everything but mainly Template routing (Guitar bodies),Finger joints and edge routing

Thanks for your input.

Regards

Greg
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 02:48 PM
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One thing to bear in mind is that there are pitfalls for any arrangement. I encountered one yesterday.

My insert is centred. I was trying to rout a 6mm recess in a 40 cm strip of wood leaving 1 cm unrouted at each end. Having failed to think things through properly, when the end of the strip reached the edge of the fence the work moved in towards the bit. Then when I wanted to start the next pass the right-hand end of the work would not register properly against the fence as the unrouted bit was off the fence.

My point is that you want to think about the jobs you want to do and position the insert accordingly.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 05:29 PM
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Hi Greg:

In the table I am currently building:

Top dimensions: 24 x 48 inches, 1-1/2 inches thick

Placement of router axis: 8 inches from the front edge (long edge), centered between the two ends.

Benefits:
1) Most work doesn't need great depth between the bit and the front edge. Eight inches is adequate.
2) 24 inches of infeed and outfeed support.
3) For most work, the rest of the table is available for holding workpieces.
4) When need arises for more than eight inches, working from the back edge gives one 16 inches of workspace. Still 24 inches of infeed and outfeed support.
5) For those rarer incidents, working across one endg gives one 24 inches in front of the bit. Problem is that infeed and outfeed support is now only 12 inches.
6) I might add an Incra LS positioner system on the table at a later date.

Cassandra

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Last edited by Cassandra; 11-29-2009 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Clarification
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 06:45 PM
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Cassandra, I like you theory's or Ideas on plate placement. I was wondering the same as Greg about placement. I will keep this in mind when I build my next router table, same goes for the overall size.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 08:03 PM
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Ron:

If you're into making base plates yourself, there is a technique that may be interesting for you.

There is what is called an "incremental base plate (IBP)." You can offset your baseplate location and use the IBP to centre, or offset your router bit.

Allthunbs
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 08:23 PM
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Hi Cassandra:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
In the table I am currently building:

Top dimensions: 24 x 48 inches, 1-1/2 inches thick

Placement of router axis: 8 inches from the front edge (long edge), centered between the two ends.
Depending on the method of support you're using with your top, you may not be able to clear all of the protrusions on the router. By moving the router to the edge, your fence has to be mounted on the entire length of the table. This is a large and difficult to maintain fence. I have a 48" table with a 54" fence made of 8/4" x 12/4" solid maple stock and I'm constantly checking to be sure it is "true." It is also a genuine pain in the back and neck to work with that size table continuously. I still have the centered baseplate 2'x4' top but I use a 2'x4' top with two baseplates centred in each end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
Benefits:
1) Most work doesn't need great depth between the bit and the front edge. Eight inches is adequate.
Interesting observation. Agreed, in most of what I've worked on, I've seldom used the bit removed from the fence. When I've used the bit remotely from the fence, I've switched to jigs or other methods (skis, shiis, )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
2) 24 inches of infeed and outfeed support.
Agreed 24" infeed and outfeed support, except when you position the fence diagonally, then, you suddenly find that that support has disappeared. After awhile I found that I would automatically mount a short fence diagonally. Only then would I remember to replace it with the larger fence. All other forms of fences become expensive and cumbersome as well; i.e. tall fence etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
3) For most work, the rest of the table is available for holding workpieces.
I found that it gave lots of space to pile up bits and pieces, until I built the two hole top and then, all kinds of things started to happen. I would do two setups at a time and suddenly my error rate went down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
4) When need arises for more than eight inches, working from the back edge gives one 16 inches of workspace. Still 24 inches of infeed and outfeed support.
Really hard on the back and neck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
5) For those rarer incidents, working across one endg gives one 24 inches in front of the bit. Problem is that infeed and outfeed support is now only 12 inches.
This will be a rare occurrence indeed. Just too painful and you can't keep an eye on what's going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
6) I might add an Incra LS positioner system on the table at a later date.
I'm a firm follower of the OakPark method. I don't need positioners.

Cassandra, I'm disagreeing with some of your philosophy, from my experience and experiments. However, had you not had the intestinal fortitude to speak up and present your views, a discussion could never have taken place perhaps of benefit to you or others. However, I may not be correct either. We'll know only when the rest of the membership steps up to the plate.

Allthunbs
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStaron View Post
Cassandra, I like you theory's or Ideas on plate placement. I was wondering the same as Greg about placement. I will keep this in mind when I build my next router table, same goes for the overall size.
Hi Ron (RStaron):

Thanks for the compliments.

Cassandra

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
Depending on the method of support you're using with your top, you may not be able to clear all of the protrusions on the router.
Protrusions? The router (Bosch 1617EVSPK motor unit) will be mounted in a custom-made lift, which will be mounted on the support cabinetry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
By moving the router to the edge, your fence has to be mounted on the entire length of the table. This is a large and difficult to maintain fence. I have a 48" table with a 54" fence made of 8/4" x 12/4" solid maple stock and I'm constantly checking to be sure it is "true."
A bridge that I have yet to cross. Thanks for the heads up on this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
It is also a genuine pain in the back and neck to work with that size table continuously.
Not sure why this would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
Agreed 24" infeed and outfeed support, except when you position the fence diagonally, then, you suddenly find that that support has disappeared. After awhile I found that I would automatically mount a short fence diagonally. Only then would I remember to replace it with the larger fence. All other forms of fences become expensive and cumbersome as well; i.e. tall fence etc.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
I found that it gave lots of space to pile up bits and pieces,
My personal work practices is that I use a tool and then put it away. I don't let a pile of tools to accumulate. If I have a stack of workpieces, then (and only then) will I allow a "pile" of work pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
until I built the two hole top and then, all kinds of things started to happen. I would do two setups at a time and suddenly my error rate went down.
Great concept! I often wish I had more than one router, to avoid changing settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
Really hard on the back and neck.
Don't know why this would be. My table is on casters, so that it can be positioned to accommodate using the table from various sides and so that it can be re-positioned within the workshop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
I'm a firm follower of the OakPark method. I don't need positioners.
I'm not entirely sold on the LS positioner, but have left the proverbial door open to add one later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allthunbs View Post
Cassandra, I'm disagreeing with some of your philosophy, from my experience and experiments. However, had you not had the intestinal fortitude to speak up and present your views, a discussion could never have taken place perhaps of benefit to you or others. However, I may not be correct either. We'll know only when the rest of the membership steps up to the plate.
I greatly appreciate your comments, Ron, as discussion is a way to a better understanding and a way to sharing lessons learned.

Cassandra

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 06:22 AM
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Hi Cassandra:

Quote:
Protrusions? The router (Bosch 1617EVSPK motor unit) will be mounted in a custom-made lift, which will be mounted on the support cabinetry.
Believe it or not, the stupid cord. The handles are easy enough, just take them off but you can't take the cord off. Next, how are you going to get at the speed control and will the router not care if you use a remote on/off switch?

The fence issue comes out of frustration. Every time it rains, the wind shifts, or the moon... (you know), the fences (4 of them) go out. I tried plywood and that works ok for the short ones but pain in the neck for the long ones.

"Pain in the back" comes from experience. I want to see what is happening at the bit so I lean over the top of the bit or look down the side, especially when I'm using the index pin.

Quote:
My personal work practices is that I use a tool and then put it away. I don't let a pile of tools to accumulate. If I have a stack of workpieces, then (and only then) will I allow a "pile" of work pieces.
Lucky you, you have the space. I'm not even in my new workshop and already it is too small. But then, I haven't seen the heating bill yet.

Quote:
Great concept! I often wish I had more than one router, to avoid changing settings.
Repeat after me: s-a-t-u-r-d-a-y m-o-r-n-i-n-g i-s f-o-r g-a-r-a-g-e s-a-l-e-s t-o c-o-l-l-e-c-t r-o-u-t-e-r-s ;-)

Quote:
Don't know why this would be. My table is on casters, so that it can be positioned to accommodate using the table from various sides and so that it can be re-positioned within the workshop.
Mine too is on casters with full floor locks. Doesn't help with the back pain. I'm 5'10" and end up leaning over tools. It must be worse for you.

Your idea of moving the router to the edge of the table is excellent if you can pull it off. Remember, the size of the table also can dictate what is feasible. If you support your top on three sizes, you leave the fourth free to vibrate when you least want it to -- when you have a big bit going slow and you just happen to hit the sympathetic vibration point and all hell breaks loose. I made sure I had a good beefy 2x4 supporting all edges of my table top. That's when I ran into the protrusions problem.

I'll ship you a copy of my table notes via pm.

Allthunbs
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 07:13 AM
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Hi Ron (Allthunbs):

s-a-t-u-r-d-a-y m-o-r-n-i-n-g i-s f-o-r g-a-r-a-g-e s-a-l-e-s t-o c-o-l-l-e-c-t r-o-u-t-e-r-s

Actually, I prefer to buy new, so as to avoid tools that might have been abused. (As I am a professional engineer, safety is Issue One.)

The cord and speed control on the 1617 are on opposite sides and, thus, forced me to design around this issue.

My top is a two-layer of 3/4" MDF, red oak edging (1-1/2 x 1-1/2 inch), braced (1x3 poplar) unit that is mounted to the top of a double pedestal cabinet. The two pedestals sit upon a base of two layers of 3/4inch baltic birch plywood. The bracing and the pedestals should reduce the vibration issue. If it doesn't go far enough, then I'll retrofirt something to reduce the vibration.

Cassandra

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