Routing material between the fence and bit - Router Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Default Routing material between the fence and bit

Hello all,

I was making stair nose and couldn't figure out how to do it another way.

My first concern was making sure the material would have sufficient support while making multiple passes. I figured that the fence would be the only consistent support to avoid wobble or collapse as I removed more and more material.

On my first attempt, I shot a projectile across the shop and through my 4mil plastic tent. (Glad no one was in the way.)



A closeup shows small fragments of wood embedded in the plastic.



Then on through a, fortunately, open door of my storage cabinet.



And ultimately through the back wall of the cabinet and bounced off the basement wall and back next to my router table.



Something I was doing was clearly wrong, and I found out at here, that what I was attempting was called "climb" routing.

So I figured I would route left to right to avoid that disaster again. It worked, but I have to believe there is a better way to accomplish what I wanted.

The next photos show the completed results, but I would like advice on a better method that what I used.




Thanks,
Mike
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 08:54 PM
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The first thing I would do is check your router armature and the bit you were using to see if they are bent. I would surprised if one or the other is not after seeing how much force the ejected piece had. You have already realized that your 1st mistake was feed direction. Your second mistake was "capturing" the piece between the bit and the fence. There is no give that way. There is also nothing to stop the piece from diving into the bit which will ruin it. Personally, I would have done the rabbets on my jointer, does a much better job and faster. But this is a router forum so in that context, I would have done the shorter rabbet first. Then I would have taken a small portion off of the second rabbet leaving enough wood on the piece to keep it stable. Then I would have cut a strip of wood the thickness of the piece you cut off the first rabbet and used it to keep the piece stable while I finished the second rabbet. Last, I would have flipped the piece over and done the bullnose. You could put a drop of glue at either end of the support strip to keep it in place while you are finishing the 2nd rabbet.
There was a post about a month ago from someone who had tried to rout something in a way that he knew wasn't safe and he injured his hand badly in the process. After he got hurt he rethought his job and came up with a safe way to do it. If what you are doing seems like a bad idea, then it usually IS a bad idea. If you can't figure it out, ask for help. I have offered one way, there are probably more coming.
By the way, you made some really nice looking stair nosings.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 09:24 PM
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It is not advisable to feed your stock between the fence and the cutter, as you found out. If I had to make your profile, I would start with stock longer than I needed. I would then plow the middle step out first using a straight cutter. This would give you support on both sides so it wouldn't rock or wobble.

After that cut I would mount the piece to a jig which has a support in the are you already routed. Then you could make the last rabbet in several passes. I'm sure there are several different ways you could do this, and if you have a lot of stock to do, it's worth the time to build a custom jig.

You had a low tuition learning experience, hopefully that will be the closest call you ever have. Bad things happen at 20000 rpm, and that's first hand information.

Work safe, trust your gut, when in doubt re-think before proceeding.

Doug
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses,

Once again my ignorance shows... it never occurred to me that I may have damaged the router or the bit. I guess I got lucky because everything checks out fine.

My guess is that if anything gave way, it was the fence. The router is fine and the bit I was using has a half inch shank and cuts just fine.

I don't have a jointer or a table saw and I really dont like dado cutting on the RAS. (It scares the beejeebers out of me.) So its like the old addage says; if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I now realize I should have done the bullnose last, but I had already done them all so I sacrificed surface support at the edges. I thought about plowing the middle first, and then using support strips or a jig, but didn't think it through well enough to see that it would have worked. Thanks for that advice.

From now on, I will heed the advice; If what you are doing seems like a bad idea, then it usually IS a bad idea. and Work safe, trust your gut, when in doubt re-think before proceeding.

I will ask first.

Thanks for the compliment on the stair nose Charles.

Mike
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 11:17 PM
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You are doubly lucky. You didn't get hurt and you didn't damage your router or bit. My rules: protect yourself first, protect your equipment second. Both are precious. You could have done the bullnose first. It wouldn't have made that much difference as it has little to do with board stability. Not having a table saw really handicaps you. You should be looking at one as your next tool purchase. I bet most of the forum members will tell you that it is the most important tool in the shop. I have a Delta Unisaw which was fairly costly but I also have an old Rockwell Beaver 10" that I bought used off a friend for $100 and it will do almost everything the Unisaw will. Just not quite as fast or easy. I really appreciate you sharing the pictures and your story with us. Someone else may see them that was thinking about trying the same thing.
By the way, did I mention how nice those stair nosings are?

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 09:43 AM
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I would have used a dado cutter on a table saw to cut the rebates in your stock....much safer IMHO.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 10:40 AM
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HI

I would use the bits below, once you have both edges done with eBay bit I would use the CMT bit below to but the 2 step rabbit in place..after all this is router forum.

1 PC 1/2" SH Double Corner Round Assembly Router Bit - eBay (item 140508964419 end time Mar-06-11 14:01:05 PST)

Amazon.com: CMT 800.627.11 Tenon Cutting Router Bit Set: Home Improvement

CMT bit ▼
" # Shipping Speed: Standard Shipping
# Order Total: $73.17 "
===




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Last edited by bobj3; 02-26-2011 at 10:54 AM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 12:08 PM
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"If what you are doing seems like a bad idea, then it usually IS a bad idea."

Yep. Another example of the old irresistible force vs. the immovable object sort of thing. As mentioned, things happen quickly at router speeds.

There are almost always multiple approaches to a woodworking task, and one or more (creative?) solutions will usually get the job done safely.

- Ralph
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for the advice.

I have been looking at table saws for the last couple of months, but what I would really like to have is out of my justifiable price range. I am concerned about the quality and work surface size of a TS for $150 or less. I guess that is another topic for discussion.

Bob, I looked at the Amazon bit you linked to, but I'm not understanding how I would have used it. I dont think the cut is deep enough to use it raised above the table surface height. Probably my lack of experience is causing me to miss the obvious on how to use it.

Charles, yes, you did mention how nice you thought the stair nosings are. Thanks again for the compliment. ":^)

Mike
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 12:14 PM
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HI Mike


You are looking at the bit by using it with stock flat on the table,it looks like your stock is about 1" thick and the bit will do 1 1/16", the stock will go by the bit on it's edge,just by stacking the cutters up it will put the rabbits in place very clean and safe by using the fence and a jig to make it safe and to hold the stock up on it's edge with out your help so to speak ,all the way down the long pass...

http://www.routerforums.com/attachme...er-bit-535.jpg

http://www.routerforums.com/attachme...er-bit-531.jpg

===
===

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpbc48 View Post
Thanks to all for the advice.

I have been looking at table saws for the last couple of months, but what I would really like to have is out of my justifiable price range. I am concerned about the quality and work surface size of a TS for $150 or less. I guess that is another topic for discussion.

Bob, I looked at the Amazon bit you linked to, but I'm not understanding how I would have used it. I dont think the cut is deep enough to use it raised above the table surface height. Probably my lack of experience is causing me to miss the obvious on how to use it.

Charles, yes, you did mention how nice you thought the stair nosings are. Thanks again for the compliment. ":^)

Mike



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Last edited by bobj3; 02-27-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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