[sreilly]

I thought I had posted this earlier but it's nowhere to be found. So I decided on hamburgers for dinner but soon found out we didn't have lettuce and tomato so off to the store. Next to the grocery store is a store called Rivertown, a second chance business and I just happen to have a bit of spare time so I drifted in and lo and behold there was this Stanley Bailey #6 plane that looked reasonably good.

The front counter had a sheet of 1/4" glass and the plane sat flat without any rocking so that seems to be a good sign. It listed at $50 so I figured it was a minor risk and took it home. Once home I took it into the shop but didn't expect to do manything with it today.

But that didn't exactly pan out....so I took it apart and did an initial cleanup getting the old sawdust and stuff out of it and checking the parts a bit better. I had no intention of doing much else but decided I needed to see how flat the blade was and started on the blade back on my extra coarse diamond stone. 30-40 minute later and a good sweat and the blade still wasn't flat. I was working the last inch or so and then I noticed that the blade wasn't square to the blade side either.

So now it looks like I'll need to setup my low speed grinder and the Veritas jig and square the blade of order a new blade from Hock or Veritas. The frog, lever cap, adjusting lever, sole, tote, knob, and chipbreaker all look good.

We'll see how this all turns out.

 

[Stick486]

Did you ever get to upgrade your hamburger to a cheeseburger???

lot's of promise in that plane...

 

[sreilly]

Did you ever get to upgrade your hamburger to a cheeseburger???

lot's of promise in that plane...

Seriously?.....Yeah, all the way to cheeseburger deluxe w/BBQ beans.

That plane has hope but the blade is questionable. I need to build the table mount for the grinder and jigs. I had been waiting till I had started using the lathe but it looks like having the Veritas jigs and the grinder will necessitate me getting off my duff and get it one.

 

[PhilBa]

Yeah, some barbarian held it against his grinder and it eventually wound up in some thrift store donation box. The store owner probably found it there for like $2. Glad some one to give it TLC got it - even for $50, it's a good deal.

 

[Stick486]

Seriously?.....Yeah, all the way to cheeseburger deluxe w/BBQ beans.

That plane has hope but the blade is questionable. I need to build the table mount for the grinder and jigs. I had been waiting till I had started using the lathe but it looks like having the Veritas jigs and the grinder will necessitate me getting off my duff and get it one.

deluxe... now we're talking...

how much grinding does the iron need???
grinding may not be the way to recovery...

 

[Nickp]

Steve...your preference but from the last picture it doesn't look like it needs a grinder...I would just use your stones and jig to knock it down square and at the right angle at the same time.

Nice find...good luck with it...

 

[sreilly]

It's hard to tell from the picture but I'd guess that the blade is out of square by 1/8". I realize I can adjust the angle with the adjusting lever but I thought, could be wrong, that it was best to start with the balde square. Too extreme and maybe not so critical? Bringing these back to shop status is new to me and I just want to at least start off doing it properly. Maybe not the word I'm looking for but close to what is considered as a newer state. And I do have the grinder with the Wood Turners Wonders CBN wheels, one is Mega Square + 4-in-1 Pair CBN Wheels and the other 180 MS+600 4-1.

Then I was given the Wolverine sharpening jig for my lathe tools. I later bought the Veritas jigs for sharpening my chisels and plane blades including the grinder tool rest and grinding jig. That's what I thought would help square the blade as it has a slot for the grinding jig to rest in and alignment pins to set the blade squarely in the holder. Then I just need to adjust for how much to grind checking with the square from time to time. The CBN wheels reduce the heat and sparks a good deal I'm told. At least that's what this video references

Am I being too critical on cleaning this up? Going too far? Like I said, I'm a bit new to this refurbishing part and just want to get it back to good working order and being rather new to hand planes I figure the closer to new like working state maybe the easier to use properly. But........

 

[Stick486]

Steve...
use your MK-II and start out w/ coarse wet/dry...
you won't regret it...

often you read that members use a grinder to work on or sharpen their chisels and irons...
they often say that's to remove nicks/chip outs from the cutting edge...

ever wonder why those nicks got there to start w/???
the heat from grinding operation changed the temper of the iron or chisel...

BUT WAIT!!!!

to the last they all say that they never get the metal hot...
I beg to differ..
the cutting edge is extremely thin and it takes nothing to heat it up and change the temper...
it's that fine edge that does all of cutting/shaving, not the body of the iron or chisel..

 

[roxanne562001]

Nice find Steve

 

[sreilly]

Hey Stick I wasn't going to sharpen the blade with the grinder but rather just square the blade. With the CBN wheels you hardly see any sparks and the metal is warm to the touch.

I had started just using the extra coarse DMT Diamond stone but after almost 45 minutes the back was still not flat in the corner. I then saw the blade wasn't square so then I thought I needed to square it to the side of the blade and then sharpen. I plan on using my various grit DMT plates for that. I have the extra coarse, coarse, fine, and extra fine. But again I thought it was necessary to square the blade....

 

[Stick486]

it's necessary...
but leave the grinder out of the picture...

hardley any spaks and the metal getting warm is the cue..
the body of iron may only get warm but IWTB that the edge got hot..

w/ the corner not flattening, is it bent???

 

[DesertRatTom]

I replaced a stock iron with a Hock and it was a big improvement. Stick's point about heat buggering up the temper is worth considering. If it's off square by 1/8th inch, it's probably been ground by someone who didn't know what they were doing and they may have overheated it long before you got it. I worked with a carpenter a few years ago who hadn't a clue about sharpening.

That is a really nice plane and after cleanup, deserves a good iron. If you have an engineer's square, check to make sure the sides are 90 to the sole before you spend any money on a blade. BTW, you can email Hock to get their advice on your best choice for that particular plane. I thoroughly enjoy using any plane, and we forget that for most of history, planes did a LOT of the work.

 

[Stick486]

I have Hock irons...
but I suggest you go to the head of the class w/ a PM-V11 ...
Stanley/Record Bench Plane Blades made by Veritas

 

[sreilly]

So it seems I may have missed something else. I took Stick's worthy advice and used a coarse git sandpaper to get the iron with good scratch marks across the entire front end which is about 1.5-2" back. Way faster than the extra coarse diamond plate. I took a 60 grit belt sander belt, cut it, and clamped it to the workbench that does have a flat surface.

I ran the iron with the entire iron on the paper lengthwise a few times and that's when I noticed the area back where the chip breaker screw goes didn't have a scratch on it. The iron is flat 2/3rds of the way and then bends slightly up at the top of the iron. I'm not sure if this is the result of the chipbreaker or if it's usable in this condition. I can see where tightening everything too tight and leaving that way may have some consequence but I haven't seen this before. That said maybe I have and didn't notice.

So is this usable? Do I need to address the rear warpage? It will lay flat in the vise but springs back when not in the vise. The Lee Valley Veritas PM-V11 iron is out of stock till 2-28 according to the website not that it's critical to have at this point as I have more to do but the question remains do I try to do anything more with this iron? Inquiring minds.....you know...

 

[Stick486]

get another iron...

 

[RickKr]

Nice find. Sounds like you should be able to recover that blade.

I scored a Stanley Bailey No. 3 at a bamboo fly rodmakers gathering last Oct., for $40. I didn't actually know what I had. I showed a photo to a friend who collects vintage hand tools, in particular chisels and hand planes. He got started with tools he got from his grandfather.

He said this Bailey was probably made in the 1920s. I am impressed with what good shape it is in, if that is the case. He has one from sometime in the 1880s, I think he said, again, that was his grandfather's.

While at that bamboo rodmakers gathering, one accomplished maker presented on sharpening hand plane blades. He only demonstrated with Veritas PMV11 blades as that is all he uses now. Said they sharpen really easily and hold an edge longer than Hock blades. I really want to get some, but for that kind of coin, they'll have to wait.

I sharpen a lot of stuff, using a Tormek T8 system and jigs. I also recently added a Viel 1x42 belt sander and installed a variable speed DC motor on it. I modified that by adding a reversing switch. I can get the belt speed down to almost zero. I have very little trouble heating blades on it, and despite the slow speeds, it cuts fairly quickly. Running the water bathed Tormek grindstones never heats up anything.

Rick

 

[Stick486]

1... So it seems I may have missed something else. I took Stick's worthy advice and used a coarse git sandpaper to get the iron with good scratch marks across the entire front end which is about 1.5-2" back. Way faster than the extra coarse diamond plate. I took a 60 grit belt sander belt, cut it, and clamped it to the workbench that does have a flat surface.

2... The iron is flat 2/3rds of the way and then bends slightly up at the top of the iron. I'm not sure if this is the result of the chip breaker or if it's usable in this condition.

3... So is this usable?

4... Do I need to address the rear warpage?

5... It will lay flat in the vise but springs back when not in the vise.

6... The Lee Valley Veritas PM-V11 iron is out of stock till 2-28 according to the website not that it's critical to have at this point as I have more to do but the question remains do I try to do anything more with this iron? Inquiring minds.....you know...

1.... OOOOPS!!!!
the rough paper was to bring the iron's bevel into square very rapidly...
it will take a bit of work to get those gouges polished out...

2,3... it's usable w/ some improvement...

4... that's not warpage...
it's mechanically bent...

5... so straighten it..
place the iron parallel to and at the edge of your work table/bench, w/ the apex up, support both ends equal distance from the apex of the bend...
using a quick clamp, type F, or C clamp*** press down on the apex some... (truly try not to over do it)...
press some, check for flatness; repeat as often as necessary to take you to your happiness...

*** NOTES:

the foot print of whatever you press w/ needs to be narrow to the length of the iron and all the way across the width...
a large diameter bolt laid across the width will work fine for this...
you could use your vise to ''get er'' done...

 

[TwoSkies57]

Keep moving forward with this iron Steve. Do everything you can do to make it at least appear to be usable. Being aware that in the end, it may very well not have been worth the effort. However, what you learn along the way can and will be applied to every sharpening task you face in the future. Time, effort, technique, tempering etc. all can be gained from this one project. You'll be much better equipped to access the worthiness of the next iron you look at. You will most likely end up acquiring an aftermarket iron, which is just fine. Hock's are great, I have several. The Lee Valley PM-V11 by all accounts are well worth the investment if you plan on using your plane quite a bit. The ease of sharpening and long wearing edge make em hard to pass on. I don't have any.....yet *S*

The plane itself looks to be well worth the time and effort required just so long as you get the sole FLAT toe to heel. Small isolated pits and dings will not adversely impact the planes designed purpose. Larger low spots on the sole may affect how the sole rides over the high spots on a board. Depending on their orientation. Left to right low spots may cause the plane to "dip" as it rides over a ridge. Where as front to back low spots may just ride over the ridges.

Don't worry to much about the 90 degress sole to sides stuff. Close will be good enough for this one. Unless you plan on using this plane as a "Shooter" (shooting board) or plan on doing alot of rabbet work with it. Both of which appear unlikely at this stage of your plane use development.

Closely inspect the knob and tote for cracking. They appear to be in nice shape! Clean em up and refinish. Just a good cleaning is all you need for the rest of it to have a really nice looking user for your shop.

Often, knowing what not to do or not worth doing is as valuable as knowing what to do.....

just my 2cents worth...

 

[sreilly]

1.... OOOOPS!!!!
the rough paper was to bring the iron's bevel into square very rapidly...
it will take a bit of work to get those gouges polished out...

2,3... it's usable w/ some improvement...

4... that's not warpage...
it's mechanically bent...

5... so straighten it..
place the iron parallel to and at the edge of your work table/bench, w/ the apex up, support both ends equal distance from the apex of the bend...
using a quick clamp, type F, or C clamp*** press down on the apex some... (truly try not to over do it)...
press some, check for flatness; repeat as often as necessary to take you to your happiness...

*** NOTES:

the foot print of whatever you press w/ needs to be narrow to the length of the iron and all the way across the width...
a large diameter bolt laid across the width will work fine for this...
you could use your vise to ''get er'' done...

I should have taken notes....there's too much time between hearing and doing sometimes and the ole memory isn't what it use to be.....not that is was ever great.

I have to get on the elliptical or it won't get done and I'm trying hard to maintain that 4 mile daily routine. Sometimes it gets truncated to 3 but not often. Depends on how those knees feel.

When that's done I'll get back on the iron as it seems I've created some additional work on getting the back cleaned up and shiny again.

Then I'll tackle the squaring with several long strokes on the sandpaper Once there I'll get into my "normal" sharpening routine with the DMT Diamond stones. I have the Duos, I think they call them, with Coarse on one side and Fine on the other with another that has Very Fine and Coarse. I also have the Very Coarse as a separate plate.

That along with the Veritas MKII or the Woodpecker's sharpening system I should be able to get a good cutting edge. What are the chance, and I haven't looked yet, that the lever lock will straighten the iron? After all as long as the iron is flat from the frog down isn't that the most important?

I'll look and see what effect it has if any. I know it was extremely tight when I took it apart.

I'll post any results, good, bad, or ugly as they develop. Now for some sweat..............

 

[Stick486]

What are the chance, and I haven't looked yet, that the lever lock will straighten the iron? After all as long as the iron is flat from the frog down isn't that the most important?..............

Trying to break something are we????